California Mountain Roads Using Chip Seal

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CerveloBert
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:43 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

by CerveloBert

Hello fellow cyclists,

Several months ago, CalTrans decided to put up a chip seal road on Angeles Crest Highway. I'm not sure if any of you have encountered what this road feels like. The quality of the road has dramatically decreased, wearing down tires much faster and also creating a very hazardous and painful descent for people who frequently use this road. There have also been reports that segments of road leading up to Mount Baldy, a bit east of this road, were also paved using this chip-seal type of pavement and the cycling community in Los Angeles is generally very upset as the safety and recreational facility of the roads were not taken into consideration when CalTrans decided to make this switch.

I personally have almost experienced a very frightening descent when I discovered the sidewall of my tire was compromised on a very slow descent of this road. I'm not one for soliciting on forums, but I believe that this directly affects one of the most beautiful mountain roads in relation to anybody using two wheels (motorcyclists included). Imagine taking a fall on this kind of pavement and the subsequent road rash that would follow. I have supplied a link to change.org to sign a petition to revert back to the original pavement before the use of chip seal. Racking up the final signatures would definitely be helpful.

http://www.change.org/petitions/califor ... e_petition

by Weenie


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jmilliron
Posts: 2012
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:03 pm
Location: Denver, CO

by jmilliron

Yeah, they did this up in the Bay Area too on Skyline Blvd (hwy 35).
2013 Wilier Cento1 SR || 2009 Ridley Crossbow || 2011 Yeti AS-R 5 Carbon

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53x12
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Location: On the bike

by 53x12

I assume this is all about saving money for the state.
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."

Herb5998
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:24 am

by Herb5998

Unfortunately some of the roads here in Washington State are going the same route. Luckily I am used to it from my time living in Central Australia, yes it eats up your tires and when initially finished it's pretty awful to ride on.

Dalai
Posts: 1491
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:54 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by Dalai

I can confirm Mt Baldy was recently chip sealed all the way from Mt Baldy village to the ski lift car park. I rode it 19th September shortly after they had resurfaced it and had to stop continually to extract the stones that had stuck to my tyres and then wedged between the frame and tyre... :evil:

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kbbpll
Posts: 494
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:56 am

by kbbpll

It's an epidemic in CO. To make things worse, they only do the lanes and leave the shoulders alone, so the shoulders are filled with pointy stones. They may as well just throw tacks on the road. Most of my favorite rides have been utterly destroyed with this crap over the past couple years.

eric
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
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by eric

Well done chip seal is ok to ride on once the cars sweep off the gravel and pack it down. It's commonly used in California on rural or less traveled roads.

What happened on highway 35 is that they used extra large gravel and lousy seal. The gravel is like 20mm diameter intead of less than 10mm. The ride is much rougher on a bike (or in a car or on a motorcycle) and the chips come loose, exposing patches of slick seal underneath. When it is wet it is particularly dangerous. I live not too far away and travel and ride it frequently.

Cyclists organizations on the peninsula have been working with the county supervisors to put pressure on CalTrans, who truly does not care about cyclists or motorcyclists. The last time they did a poor job of chip sealing highway 35, motorcyclists crashed as a result. It still took a couple years before they fixed it.

CerveloBert
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:43 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

by CerveloBert

I'm just hoping this gets changed before there are more serious injuries as a result of this seal. Just the other day we had a couple motorcyclists fall off into the ravine at the base of this mountain.

CerveloBert
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:43 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

by CerveloBert

Good news for the Nor Cali Folks though -
http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist05/projects/c ... /index.htm

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1925
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

CerveloBert wrote:I'm just hoping this gets changed before there are more serious injuries as a result of this seal. Just the other day we had a couple motorcyclists fall off into the ravine at the base of this mountain.


Really? Chip seal caused the the motorcyclist to fall of into a ravine? Common, do you think speed had anything to do with this? I have no clue what you are saying, but I can assure you an excessive speed over the speed limit was the biggest factor or they were impaired.

We in the USA are broke, get used to it. Chip seal is just another way to get us past this era. If you insist on having the best riding road, pave them yourself or better yet, start a campaign to tax cyclist so they can help pave the roads they so dearly have to ride on.

Don't get me wrong, I do not like it either, but I would never expect someone else to pay for my issues. Get over it, sure beats gravel and dirt [or bring something worthy to the table to whine about like pot holes].

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djconnel
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Location: San Francisco, CA
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by djconnel

Butcher wrote:We in the USA are broke, get used to it.


Really?

Problem isn't lack of money. It's where it's being spent. We build too many roads, too many lanes, for too many cars. Recently more than $70M was spent widening a section of the shoulder of Highway 101. This is enough to fund the regional commuter rail for 10 months.

Anyone visiting the area and seeing huge cars, huge houses, and 3rd-world transit would have to serious question the conclusion about what we can afford.

In any case, chip seal is common in Europe, in my experience. It can be done well, it just needs to be maintained more often.

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1925
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

Sounds like a politician. If I had no bills, I would not be broke. If I had more money, I would not be broke. It does not matter, WE ARE BROKE!

I love my bike, I do not mind paying taxes, and I am a car mechanic. I feel we citizens ask so much from out government it makes me sick. I wish all my taxes, that I pay for the tabs on my bike, to go for the roads. Since I pay none, it's hard for me to bitch about something I get for free.

If we all stop asking the government to take care of us, maybe there would be enough for decent roads.

JN2Wheels
Posts: 219
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Location: Maryland

by JN2Wheels

Wow.. Where is that popcorn emoticon??

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HammerTime2
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed

by HammerTime2

One of the key items determining how pleasant the chip seal is for bicyclists is the size of the aggregate. Bigger aggregate ---> not so nice. See http://bikesiliconvalley.org/2013/01/january-18-2013-letter-regarding-caltrans-use-of-chip-seal
JN2Wheels wrote:Wow.. Where is that popcorn emoticon??
Right here :popcorn:

:popcorn : (remove the space between the n and : ) will do the trick.

by Weenie


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CerveloBert
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:43 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

by CerveloBert

Butcher wrote:Really? Chip seal caused the the motorcyclist to fall of into a ravine? Common, do you think speed had anything to do with this? I have no clue what you are saying, but I can assure you an excessive speed over the speed limit was the biggest factor or they were impaired.


You are probably right in this regard, the motorcyclist was probably going way too fast, and managed to slip on loose aggregate due to the speed/angle of turn (this is an assumption). The motorcyclists indeed do speed up and down that road at very unsafe speeds.

Butcher wrote:Don't get me wrong, I do not like it either, but I would never expect someone else to pay for my issues. Get over it, sure beats gravel and dirt [or bring something worthy to the table to whine about like pot holes].


Los Angeles City and County have been battling pot holes for a very long time. NPR just did a segment mentioning that pot holes are supposed to be repaired within 2-3 days of reporting, any resident of Los Angeles knows that many of these issues go un-attended for 6 months to a year, and only 10 percent of people who claim damage to their vehicles due to the potholes ever get any kind of compensation, and any injuries that have been caused by the negligence of repairing these pot holes get swept under the rug.

djconnel was right when he was talking about where the money goes. Do you re-pave a road that does not need it in the first place and cause a lot of commotion from recreational users? Or do you deal with the basketball sized potholes that plague the Los Angeles basin? I would have much preferred that CalTrans left the road (that was completely fine) alone - and taken the time and money to fix areas where there are real problems with road conditions and infrastructure.

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