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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:49 am
Posts: 868
Location: Mallorca, Spain
Last three posts have proven the Pinarello owners club are proficient at addition.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:17 pm
Posts: 328
Or at least, their accountants are.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 1438
Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...
I ride Nago. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm
Posts: 1048
Leviathan wrote:
Last three posts have proven the Pinarello owners club are proficient at addition.


They certainly seem to know what qualities add up to a great ride.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 1590
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
ScuderiaDouroux wrote:
mrfish: if you truly think a Chinese immitation Pinarello is 99% functionally the same if not better than the real thing, I have a bridge to sell you...


Let's get back to reality. Under normal use, fact is that any 1200g mid range carbon frame is just as fast as a 1200g Pinarello.

ScuderiaDouroux wrote:
Not heavily investing into manufacturing? Is that why they offer a monocoque frameset in more sizes than anyone else, each requiring its own expensive mold? Is that why they use a Toray fiber not available to anyone else at this point


Fact is that Pinarello spends a very small proportion of revenues on manufacturing, since a large proportion is spent paying Sky to ride their bikes, glossy marketing ads, sponsorship of events, distributor margin and retailer margin. I think it's a safe bet that Nick Crumpton and Chinarello both spend a larger % of their revenues on manufacturing than Pinarello does.

So how do you think Chinarellos are made, if not using a mould?

Do you think the unavailable superfibre gives any real benefit over the 60MPA fibres available off the shelf? Again this is Marketing department spin. Pinarello likely uses 5-10% high modulus fibres somewhere in their frameset for stiffening, and probably T1000 for most of the rest of it. They like you to think that the bike is 100% made of "unobtainium" but this is not really the case. Funnily enough Chinarellos are made 100% of T700 as the intermediate modulus "do it all" fibre enables simpler layup and thus cheaper construction.

Read this: http://calfeedesign.com/tech-papers/grades-of-carbon-fiber/ and niccrump post here http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51850&start=0


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm
Posts: 1048
there's an awful lot of "probably" and incorrect use of the word "fact" in your post.

Not really adding much. Care to back up your assertions with some kind of evidence by chance?


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:18 pm
Posts: 419
This dicussion is going nowhere. Fact is that a fake Pinarello is for fake people.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:09 pm
Posts: 1235
Location: In the industry
Might be really offtopic but one thing I am seeingin 2013, is that there is a huge wave of bike brand bankruptcy, non-bike related sponsors leaving the sport, obviously good riders without a team. 200K Chinarellos a year by a dozen factories will easily drive dozens of mid-to-small brands out of the market. Coupled with the online-LBS fate, the industry is experiencing something unprecedented. Many sub-sectors of the industry (media, for example) may be wiped out.

Sure, we could all pay $20 directly to the counterfeit sweatshop worker and get a bike that could break and cost half of your face, but the sport/industry of cycling as we all know it will just fall apart. (BTW, I still don't understand why people still think the fakes use the same layup technology and go through the same level of testing of a proper manufacturer).

The above is based on talks with many industry insiders and being deeply involved in talks about several possible bike brand M&A transactions.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 1438
Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...
poppiholla wrote:
This dicussion is going nowhere. Fact is that a fake Pinarello is for fake people.


:beerchug:


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm
Posts: 1052
Location: The Lone Star State
Although I don't hate Pinarello, I can't justify spending the kind of money that they charge for a bike that comes with a 1-year manufacturer's warranty (the US distributor pays to extend it), and if you have a problem with it, you have to wait for the bike to go to Italy for analysis. I have a friend who had that happen to him, and he had to wait about 4 months to get an answer from Pinarello that the frame had a defect. He had to wait so long that he bought another bike, and just sold the Pinarello frame once he got the warranty replacement.

My experience with Pinarello (and increasingly for some friends of mine, Trek) is that once you leave the shop, you're on your own.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 268
Location: California
Starting in 2009, Pinarello's warranty is 3 years. GITA, Pinarello's North American distributor, is great at handling the few claims we've had. At times, there can be a slight delay between Pinarello and GITA but it's never more than a couple of days. Secondly, GITA is usually the one to determine if there is a defect. IMO, it sounds more of a problem with the customer's LBS. When I have a customer with a defect, it is usually resolved in a week or two. Furthermore, I've never had to send a frame to Italy for analysis.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Posts: 2686
ScuderiaDouroux wrote:
Is that why they use a Toray fiber not available to anyone else at this point? Get real.
The guy in charge of pinarellos marketing department needs a payrise. A really big one.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Posts: 1294
Location: France
ilvwhtgrls wrote:
Starting in 2009, Pinarello's warranty is 3 years.


Nice to know the manufacturer has such faith in their product! That is a joke for a frame costing that much.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm
Posts: 1048
It's the same as you get on a car and I suspect they get fewer cracks than some I could mention.

Besides which, when I look at the "lifetime warranty" that is supplied with some framesets, the chances of one actually claiming on it in five or ten years is highly questionable.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Posts: 1294
Location: France
airwise wrote:
Not really adding much. Care to back up your assertions with some kind of evidence by chance?


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