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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:31 am 
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mattr wrote:
ScuderiaDouroux wrote:
Is that why they use a Toray fiber not available to anyone else at this point? Get real.
The guy in charge of pinarellos marketing department needs a payrise. A really big one.


Or to be fired. Giving that department a raise won't improve things, it only encourages more b*llsh*t.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:59 am 
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Their styling was one of the best for a while IMO but things have gone downhill quickly since things like this:
Image

Their warranty period sounds pretty average, but the same could unfortunately be said for many high end road bikes.

It seems like a random comparison, but a Liteville 301 would surely cost as much to manufacture as a Dogma. They are flat out thrashed by some owners yet are still backed by Liteville with a 10 year transferable warranty. The frame also happens to weigh only about a kilo more than a Dogma despite being a 160mm travel, aluminum trail bike, costing almost half as much!


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:36 am 
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Forget the stupid Pinarello. More interesting question - are those Lightweights or ADAs?


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:24 am 
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gravity wrote:
I don't 'prefer' Pinarello because everyone who rides them around my area is a total d*cks. Which leads me to disliking the riders, and their bikes :lol: :lol: :lol:


haha same sentiments.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:23 am 
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maquisard wrote:
airwise wrote:
Not really adding much. Care to back up your assertions with some kind of evidence by chance?


Well, I've not heard of anyone I know cracking a Dogma. How many Cervelos have you been through?

Having said that I can only assume English is your second language as you clearly failed to understand the post you lazily replied to. Maybe put it in a translator :wink:


Last edited by airwise on Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:25 am 
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jooo wrote:
Their styling was one of the best for a while IMO but things have gone downhill quickly since things like this:
[img]http://lagazzettadellabici.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/tdf_1997_ullrich_big1.jpg[/img

Funny thing is, that's not a Pinarello. The name on the frame may be Pinarello but the frame's a Pegoretti.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:59 am 
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HammerTime2 wrote:
Forget the stupid Pinarello. More interesting question - are those Lightweights or ADAs?


:lol: I think Cees Beers would be happy to answer this question.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:26 pm 
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So would Heinz Obermayer.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:59 pm 
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They are lightweights.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:32 pm 
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No, they're ADA's. You can see the kevlar brake track. An unique feature only found on some ADA's. But in other pics you can find both Riis and Ullrich on Lightweights.

Oh, and I agree that Pinarello frames was a lot more attractive when Pegoretti made them...


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:37 pm 
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http://www.prorider.org/ullrich.htm

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:55 pm 
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That picture above is labeled as http://lagazzettadellabici.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/tdf_1997_ullrich_big1.jpg, so if it is to believed, is from the 1997 TdF.

There were plenty of Lightweight vs. ADA threads on here several years back. Anyhow, I just dug this up. Note the sentence which I have put in bold purple. You might as well read the rest of the thread while you're at it, and click on the post quoted below to see the post's attachments.
Timo wrote:
No offense, but that's a very selective answer if you look at the other questions raised in this topic (the colored braking surface on Ulle's wheels, the "army green" hub mentioned by pritched, the "thanks for the wheels" shirt presented to Cees, etc.)


Taken from this Interview:

Heinz Obermayer: First: We didn't know at all in 1997, that Ullrich or Riis were actually riding our wheels. A friend of mine was at the TdF and saw both riding with our wheels. He then phoned me, that I should turn on the TV. Then I saw for the first time, that our wheels were ridden on the TdF. I have a big picture of Ullrich from this Tour and it clearly shows, that firstly the hub had our traditional grey hub shells and secondly our aero spokes. (to the present day ADA has still round spokes).

They didn´t know he was riding them. This is because Mr. Beers sold LW´s in the mid and late 90`s. Ullrich got his set borrowed from Rijs. Rijs bought them from Beers. Ullrich didn´t know about D&O because Beers claimed he made the wheels (like he claimed he made the disk when he sold it to Lemond - funny btw: No comments on the disk so far... From the interview: Heinz Obermayer: In the main everything is already said.
Maybe one more thing: Mr. Beers let himself photograph with a disc wheel of us in the american „News“.)
. That´s also the reason for the "Thank you shirt"

Heinz sticks to what he always has said: Mr. Beers SOLD LW´s (spoked and disks) before they departed.

Atteached you find 2 more pics. I called Heinz and he just took them in his office. It shows a 97 "Thank you wheel" with Jan´s signature besides some others like Zabel etc. And it shows the hub construction of 97 with the grey/green plastic.

I also asked Heinz on the phone about the braking surface. He has no real explantion.

Now these are all the facts I have. I will stop posting in this thread right now. Make up your mind for yourself.

BTW: I suggested earlier that "Pandora´s box should stay closed forever"....


Edit: Note that CarbonSports (Stefan) links to http://weightweenies.starbike.com/articles.php?ID=57 for the interview, of which he posted an extract, however, that link is not (no longer) valid. I thought perhaps it had been moved to another location on this site, so I googled for the Obermayer quote above, and unfortunately did not find a link to the full interview, but did find this additional, older, and related post, also linking to that same invalid interview link.
On March 17, 2004 in ada, CarbonSports wrote:
jersievers wrote:
Who came first ADA (cee beers) or Lightweight (Dierl and Obermayer) because someone is copying. ADA site says Cee Beers never got a patent. ADA says they started in 1988, Lightweight in mid 1990's.

Did dierl and obermayer sneak into the ADA shop and prefect Cee's non-patented design.


Here is what Mr. Obermayer says about this topic:

" The first spoke wheels built by us had low profile rims and „press-formed“ spokes - not yet spokes in „aerofoil form“. For a short time these were named „DO 2000“. Then the company Heylight helped us with the distribution of these wheels and we renamed them to „Heylight“. Approximately 1994/95 we got to know Mr. Cees Beers and he wanted to distribute our wheels worldwide. Mr. Beers was 1x in our workshop and he called on us to shape the rim profile more aerodynamic. As therefor new molds were necessary, we asked for financial support. Then we received 850 Netherlands Guilders and invested them into new molds. The outcome of this were the first spoke wheels with aero rims in 1995 here in Munich."

[...]

"First: We didn't know at all in 1997, that Ullrich or Riis were actually riding our wheels. A friend of mine was at the TdF and saw both riding with our wheels. He then phoned me, that I should turn on the TV. Then I saw for the first time, that our wheels were ridden on the TdF. I have a big picture of Ullrich from this Tour and it clearly shows, that firstly the hub had our traditional grey hub shells and secondly our aero spokes. (to the present day ADA has still round spokes).
Also they couldn't have been ADA wheels, because Mr. Beers has not yet made wheels at that time. "

[...]

" Maybe one more thing: Mr. Beers let himself photograph with a disc wheel of us in the american „News“. But until today Mr. Beers has no disc wheels in his product program. We've never taken any legal action against Mr. Beers, because we were always occupied with work for several months and we never found it necessary to waste our valuable time with quibbling. You have to work hard for success, envy do you get as present."

Taken from: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/articles.php?ID=57

I have one of the very first low profile Lightweights that Mr. Obermayer mentioned above. They had a ~20 mm rim and 24 spokes (flat pressed, not quite like the ones today.)
I can post a pic if you like.

When 2 people say opposite things - everybody should decide for himself whom to believe.

Also, another related thread (and there are others as well) Old pic: what is Ullrich's rear wheel?.


Last edited by HammerTime2 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:46 pm 
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Mario Jr. wrote:
Oh, and I agree that Pinarello frames was a lot more attractive when Pegoretti made them...


Can you tell more about this? I've never heard of it. Which frames were made by Pegoretti?

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:14 am 
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TIG steel Pinarello's made from early to mid 90's...Delgado, Indurain etc...

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:05 am 
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The warranty period is just another marketing tool. Nothing less nothing more.

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