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 Post subject: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 3934
Location: Bay Area
Ok, with a quick preface- I know this is WW and their bikes aren't always the lightest, but the amount of hate they receive on here is unreasonable to me. For a forum that values innovation and pragmatism it seems that everyone is lost in the questionable aesthetic and high weight of the Dogma and forget:

1. Pinarello helped to push the aerodynamic qualities of bike as much or more than any major brand in the 1990's and early 2000's. I would think that this spirit of technological advancement would not be lost on WW members. When Trek was figuring out how to bond carbon tubes to metal lugs Pinarello was helping to make one-of-a-kind time trial and track bikes to push the boundaries of the sport.

2. Pinarello has often experimented in materials earlier and in greater depth than other major brands. When was the last time Trek or Speci made a magnesium frame, let alone one that was light, rode well, and lasted.

3. Despite all of this, Pinarello doesn't break with the basics. Their geo has been the same for almost 30 years. They make more sizes than almost any other major brand (aside from Colnago). When was the last time that you heard of Pinarello botching cable routing (like Wilier), having a rash of part failures (think Trek and Speci forks), or producing a bike that wasn't capable of being raced to hell and back? I can't recall ever hearing that a single model of theirs performed at a sub-par level or had durability issues.

4. What do people expect out of Italian bikes? While you have some basic design cues that have withstood the test of time, what Italian manufacturer doesn't push aesthetic or construction boundaries in some way? Colnago, Pegoretti, Cippo (more recently), the older Bottechias and Guerciottis, etc. have all gone through phases of adding paint or design cues that questionably work.

5. You never hear of their bikes riding poorly. No one has ever come back and said that the Dogma is noodly or that it has some kind of poor handling feature. Its rare that companies produce bikes with the same ride quality ratings across the entire size range especially since most smaller sizes still have issues with toe overlap or trail-related handling.

I just don't get it.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Posts: 1566
psssst.....It's the utterly preposterous fork design.....shhhhh.....

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:43 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:03 pm
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Location: San Francisco Peninsula
Just really dislike the way they look. Mainly the fork.

No problems with the weight. They're about the same as my Cento1SR. Have come to decide that the way a bike fits, rides and handles is more important than a couple hundred grams.

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Last edited by jmilliron on Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...
I like Pinarello. Trek and Spez are the most boring brands at the moment...

Love Colnago. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:55 pm 
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I think it's as you stated. The WW audience in principle celebrates minimalism and pinas have plenty of post-rationalized gratuitous design features.

I personally really like their looks and have no problem with the swoopy lines. My teammate has one with DA9000 & 303's and it one of the nicest bikes around I think.

This is a bit off topic, but what really annoys me is when people start talking about how superior one brand is to the rest due to marketing, "research" or sponsored riders statements. I mean mostly Specialized and Cervelo. The people with cult loyalty for those brands and hate for others is ignorance in its purest form.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:02 pm 
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Location: Asti, ITALIA
maybe their collaboration with team Sky has raised the "hate"


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7412
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
petepeterson wrote:
This is a bit off topic, but what really annoys me is when people start talking about how superior one brand is to the rest due to marketing, "research" or sponsored riders statements. I mean mostly Specialized and Cervelo. The people with cult loyalty for those brands and hate for others is ignorance in its purest form.


I completely agree with this as it applies to all brands, and pull it back to the Pinarello discussion. It's the cult loyalty and blind belief that what-you-pay-for-makes-it-superior or a blind belief in that brand's marketing that creates the hate. Then again a marketing dept loves this sort of thing so they would consider the hate talk a success.

It isn't so much the aesthetics - those are personal, some like it, some don't.
It is, however:
-Completely false weight claims that were several hundred grams off. That's just ridiculous. Since then Pinarello have dropped the claims or adjusted them, but that initial lie was memorable.
-Outlandish claims. This is the same with a lot of brands, unfortunately.
-Taking credit for other brand's innovations. Asymmetrical chain stays, for example.
-The pricing. Over the past few years other brands have raised their prices to match Pinarello, but years ago the costs of a top-end Dogma were significantly above other brands and it was very questionable as to why when you considered how far off the weights were, the aesthetics, and the questionable claims.

Overall I think they're nice bikes. I personally don't like their shape at all, but again some do and we're all different. They ride fine, but it's not for me. Some people really love them - and that's good for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Pinarello has always been left me with a ‘meh...’ feeling. In all these decades this feelings hasn't changed. I'm not against them, I just prefer not to ride or own one. After all, the whole cycling experience about riders satisfaction.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...
But if you can't afford a Pinarello. Buy a Scott. It's like complaining about how expensive Ferrari is. A Ferrari is expensive because it is a Ferrari.

I would easily ride a Pinarello.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:41 pm 
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PSM wrote:
But if you can't afford a Pinarello. Buy a Scott. It's like complaining about how expensive Ferrari is. A Ferrari is expensive because it is a Ferrari.


Ferrari is expensive because it is at the forefront of technology and it's performance is astounding. Pinarello frames are very expensive and mediocre. So your comparision doesn't make any sens.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:48 pm 
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Are they all made in Asia? Not that it matters but for the price I'd end up on a C59, or a S-Works Venge....... oh wait ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:54 pm 
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The wavy seat stays match the fork just like a VW bug: the front matches the rear you don't know if your coming or going. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:11 pm
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Location: People's Republic of Boulder
KWalker wrote:
I just don't get it.


Neither do I. :thumbup: you nailed it.

Hate has to do with success, cost and weight.
Success is good timing and sponsoring the right teams over many years.
Cost is the highest they can get away with in the market.
Weight adds to ride quality and durability.

I have had 2 Pina's and both were excellent riding/handling/and very sexy, yet timeless.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1405
Obnoxious is the first thought when I see one. They're high quality nice riding bikes, but so are just about everything else on the market. Definitely more suited to the flamboyant types.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:29 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Pinarello Hate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:45 pm
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Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...
record wrote:
PSM wrote:
But if you can't afford a Pinarello. Buy a Scott. It's like complaining about how expensive Ferrari is. A Ferrari is expensive because it is a Ferrari.


Ferrari is expensive because it is at the forefront of technology and it's performance is astounding. Pinarello frames are very expensive and mediocre. So your comparision doesn't make any sens.


Mediocre in what way? Look at the two of latest big wins...


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