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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm
Posts: 997
I'll put some figures together based on the last 4km of the Tre Cime climb out of Cortina.

Maintaining a VAM of 1300 requires a power output of circa 300w for a 72kg rider like myself. Travelling at 9kph, my average cadence would be 52 rpm over the 24 minute duration

Now I would question whether grovelling up a 15% gradient at altitude, riding in the saddle for nigh on half an hour, with a cadence of 52rpm was an efficient way to tackle that particular climb.

Yes you can "get up it". But I would argue that most would benefit from maintaining a higher cadence. I remember Nibali and Basso riding 36/29 on their Supersixes in the Dolomites. Now if two grand tour riders see fit to run smaller gearing than you are suggesting for WW members, I'd have to question the wisdom of what you are recommending.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:30 am 
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prendrefeu wrote:
You might not need compacts even on the Angliru.


Need =! benefit from :wink:


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Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:30 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 3337
Location: Natovi Landing
airwise wrote:
I'll put some figures together based on the last 4km of the Tre Cime climb out of Cortina.

Maintaining a VAM of 1300 requires a power output of circa 300w for a 72kg rider like myself. Travelling at 9kph, my average cadence would be 52 rpm over the 24 minute duration

Now I would question whether grovelling up a 15% gradient at altitude, riding in the saddle for nigh on half an hour, with a cadence of 52rpm was an efficient way to tackle that particular climb.

Yes you can "get up it". But I would argue that most would benefit from maintaining a higher cadence. I remember Nibali and Basso riding 36/29 on their Supersixes in the Dolomites. Now if two grand tour riders see fit to run smaller gearing than you are suggesting for WW members, I'd have to question the wisdom of what you are recommending.


Just to annoy you, in my youth I remember doing the GF Campagnolo as was out there on a 53x39 and while it wasn't optimal there was still a top 5% of field finish. :wink:

Never done the Tre Cime ... it doesn't average 15% for 4km does it?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:31 am 
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mattr wrote:
airwise wrote:
I don't understand the snobbery over triples.
For a mooching round the countryside bike, there is nothing wrong with them. For any sort of spirited riding/racing they just aren't very useful. Too much chain flapping around...

Excuse me, but what? Chain length on a triple is the same as on a double with the same cassette and big ring. In other words, a double setup with a wide range cassette will have more chain "flapping around" than a triple with a close range cassette. And why would this "flapping around" thing even matter if you're not riding on pavé?

Quote:
... bendy front mech...

Why would a triple front dérailleur be any less rigid than an equivalent double? If anything, it has more material in the cage.

Quote:
... and having to ride bandy legged are just the three things that would put me off using one in a race. (actually, the bandy legged thing would put me off altogether, my knees won't take it.)

Q-factor is individual, but it's worth noting that, for example, Mark Cavendish and Bradley Wiggins both use longer spindles for their pedals in order to increase their Q-factor - so there are people whom it would not matter.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:50 am 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Posts: 1982
Longer rear mech, more flapping. Using the inner chain ring, more slack, more flapping. You obviously live somewhere with good roads too.
Triple front mech has a longer cage, so there is more leverage on the linkage during shifting, so it flexes more.
I said it would be a deal breaker for me.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:14 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:21 am
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WiFli and similar wide range double setups = long cage rear dérailleur, so no difference there.
Granny gear typically means quite low speeds, so I don't see flapping being much of an issue.
Since you mention the quality of the local roads, I cannot go to a ride without having to negotiate tram tracks, curbs, sett-paved ascents and descends, irregularly patched potholes or any combination of those, no matter what route I choose.

The outer plate of the cage for triple fronts is actually the same length as for the double - it's the rear plate that is wider and has a different profile. For typical middle to big ring and back shifting, the leverage is the same for double and triple since the point where the chain makes the contact with the cage is the same distance from the anchor point; this means leverage is the same.
I'll note that I am aware of the reputation of triples shifting worse, but this has not been my experience so I cannot comment on that.

I acknowledge it's your personal preference not to use triples, I just don't agree that two of the three stated flaws are objectively significant - i.e. you might as well say "I just don't like the way they look" and be done with it.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:33 pm 
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sawyer wrote:

Never done the Tre Cime ... it doesn't average 15% for 4km does it?


Yes it does. It's very different to anything you'll find on the Sportful, which features four or five relatively comfortable climbs. Even for us oldies :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:37 pm 
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Fiery wrote:

I acknowledge it's your personal preference not to use triples, I just don't agree that two of the three stated flaws are objectively significant - i.e. you might as well say "I just don't like the way they look" and be done with it.



:thumbup: +1

You might want to add "I'm worried what people might think" :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:02 pm 
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Location: New York
Why not look at this the smart way.
Get the gear chart out and find out which gears work for you.

Pro's use doubles over triples because:

1. They are lighter.
2. They have pre-selected their gearing for the climbs.
3. They know what gear they can be most efficient on the given climb.
4. The put a higher constant power output over a much longer period.

Yes there are pros that have run triples in races but the majority will have double chain ring with the right cassette.

Worst case scenario they will get off and walk it. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:16 pm 
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Or get a bike change at the foot of the final climb :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
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Location: Natovi Landing
airwise wrote:
sawyer wrote:

Never done the Tre Cime ... it doesn't average 15% for 4km does it?


Yes it does. It's very different to anything you'll find on the Sportful, which features four or five relatively comfortable climbs. Even for us oldies :wink:


Can you post the climbbybike link airwise ... genuinely curious as I have not been up that climb.

BTW ... the carnage on the Sportful is anything but comfortable. I've seen men in tears literally at the end of that.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Location: Pack filler
sawyer-
Its the toughest climb i've ever ridden. Thank goodness its relatively short!!
Its a little like the top of the fedaia if you go up the Canezei side.

its a bit depressing that all there is at the top is a car park and no cafe :noidea:
http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?Col=Tre-Cime-di-Lavaredo&qryMountainID=3753


....and i rode it on 39-25....(does that make me a pro? :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Posts: 1982
Wi fli is not a typical compact double. AFAIK only SRAM offer this mutant mix of Road and MTB gears. So the long rear mech is only a SRAM wi fli issue, not a shimano/campag compact issue.
I found triples flapped like nobodies business, whether you ride at 3 mph or 10 mph. So I don't use them. Also, I wish I had roads as nice as that. :( I live on a dirt track, off a now derelict, and much abused main road. Quite a few of the training roads round here randomly change into dirt tracks as well
Front mech, I'll give you that one, not looked at them since my last shop stint, 10 odd years ago, when they were usually more like MTB mechs. And it was always the inner to middle shift that was a pain (I've even ditched my mtb triple, with this being one of the many reasons).

As for your last point, get real, I'm an overweight 40 year old who wears lycra and goes playing on his bike, anyone in that boat who thinks they look anything other than ridiculous on a bike needs to get a grip.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:25 pm
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Location: Winterpeg
So road pros should use triple while many weekend warriors run single 34-38 on their MTB. Allrightthen...

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Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:09 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm
Posts: 630
How is this even a discussion? Take your triples to RBR. You don't belong here.


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