And Obree.

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Baum Ristretto, Baum Mondrian Corretto & the '89 Merckx! | "If you could eat it in one sitting, hold your line." | twitter.com/Tinea_Pedis

The hour record is a track event. When you do not have use of a velodrome 24x7 the next best thing is the trainer.

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree

stella

that is a debate you brough up a couple years ago, regarding training on the trainer during winter VS on the road.

Do you actually race? Do you actually know anything about training? Or are you really that much of an old school dude who doesnt get much racing in and reads cycling mag and adheres to the ``do as the pros do``?

I train a bunch load on the trainer, december, january, febuary and part of march, all on the trainer. My performance doesnt seem to suffer that much when I get out on the road for some racing, nor does my wattage. Know that? Wattage?

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2013 rocky mountain vertex 29er
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That's because you maintained using the trainer.

I did not say that your performance would suffer using the trainer.

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree

From my datas, my performance was not maintained, it was improved.

Can you please explain HOW the trainer act solely as a maintenance tool?

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2013 rocky mountain vertex 29er
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It doesn't act as a maintenance tool it's used as a maintenance tool as I see it. I use the trainer to maintain some of my form through the winter months where I can't get out on the road like in the summer months. I do ride in the winter here but weather is factor.

My gains are done on the road where multiple variables allow me to adjust and cope with physical stress on the bike. Something that cannot be duplicated on the trainer. I do realize if you have a high end trainer with video you can simulate something closer to road feel but it's still not the same.

So am I to deduce that your performance is better on the trainer than on the road? You make more gain on the trainer than you do on the road?

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree

As a racer, most of my form is gained during off season, therefore, during winter on the trainer. The racing season is busy and time is allocated to recovery from races to get ready for next races.

My performance is measured in races, not on the trainer. Indicators of physical performance such as wattage can be assessed on the trainer or on the road.

I have a very basic trainer, in fact, its a 6 years old tacx, the very entry level one. But I have something you cant buy and I suspect is your major issue and the one many people have with trainer: dedication and motivation to train and make measurable gains.

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2013 rocky mountain vertex 29er
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"...dedication and motivation to train and make measurable gains..."

Quoted for prosperity and truth.

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"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

Aren't you supposed to peak at races?

I like to improve on the road and not on the trainer. That's my issue.

If you want gain on the trainer go ahead I'm not stopping you.

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree

Im not peaking for races, I race and plan some strategic rest according to events.

All im asking is you explain why the trainer is a maintenance tool and couldnt be used to make gains before getting out on the road. Cause thats what you said, not that it was your issue, it sounded more like a generalized statement.

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2013 rocky mountain vertex 29er
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Because that's what the trainer is mainly used for. You maintain your fitness so that when you do get on the road you have some fitness to start with.

If you are participating in road races you want to do your training on the road.
If you are participating in track you do you training on the track.
The trainer is closer to the track more than the road. So if you can't get to the track you ride the trainer.

The whole point is to win. You train in the element closer to the event you are participating in.

That's basically my whole point here.

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree

I totally get your specificity point. Though I race XCO MTB and train on the trainer, not quite specific eh?

What I understand is you seem to refer to the so called ``road feel`` vs ``trainer feel`` to make up the specificity point. Sure training on the road year round is what everyone dreams of, but its unfortunately not the case for a lot of folks up north.

I still do not understand how someone couldnt win races while training a lot on the trainer. But it looks like you wont explain that particular point, so I guess case is closed.

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Some elite level triathletes no longer ride their bikes outdoors, except for the actual event. Those same triathletes have become more successful in part due to their new training methods. The same way mountain bikers need to train on road bikes (because the terrain affects the efforts much less), road bikers can benefit from training indoors.
Personally, I'd rather be hung from my pinky toenails than sit on a trainer, but that's why I'm here and they are winning races.

I don't know many road cyclist that say I won because I did a lot of work on the indoor trainer.
Maybe you do. Maybe the trainer benefits you because you do not ride road races?
I don't even own a MTB but I know that serious MTBikers ride trails to be better MTBikers. If I had a MTB that's what I would do.
Maybe you can tell me who wins race by doing a lot of indoor training for road. It would be nice if it was someone that is in the pro ranks.

If more and more triathletes are using indoor training to win races that's fine. Doing a triathlon bike race is not the same as doing a road race. It's almost like doing a indoor race but outside if you think about it. Because that is what I though we were talking about here. Training for road.

Doing a road race utilizes most or all of your muscles upper and lower. Riding indoors on the trainer utilizes your main leg muscle groups. You have greater shift of power on the road where you have to constantly adjust and you have to contend with temperature swings, gravity, wind, road hazards all of which put strain the the body.

Sure watts are watts but what would you rather do 300 watts indoors with the A/C on or 300 watts outside 100 degrees and humid.

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree

Who runs an A/C? I don't. Big fan, but if my garage's ambient is in the 30's then that's just the way it is. I have to race in heat, why would I not train in it on my turbo.


You're pretty determined to ignore evidence to the contrary Stella. Even when it's using the opposing "what Pro's do" line of reasoning that you employed.

I think Vince got it in a nutshell, this one seems to be closed.


And one other point to note, I love the fact there are plenty of people with thinking like yours. As it makes getting competitive edge's that much easier. In fact, I really should be encouraging it.

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Baum Ristretto, Baum Mondrian Corretto & the '89 Merckx! | "If you could eat it in one sitting, hold your line." | twitter.com/Tinea_Pedis