I did not mean for you to run the A/C instead of a fan while on the trainer.
riding the trainer in an air conditioned environment with the fan on does that make more sense in what I was trying to contrast?

Since you have ridden with pros and done a pro race or two you know more than I do I guess. You tell me what is the preferred way of training for road races. Has your method of training worked for you? Have you achieved all that you could with your method of training? If so good for you.

What evidence are you referring to really? What Tapeworm and Devinci are saying? Is that the evidence.

I'd probably want better evidence than that.

But at this point I don't really care. I have made my point no one here needs to follow it.

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree

A trainer is no substitute for the road -- I think we can all agree that we'd rather be outside when the sun is shining than in a basement or garage.

When the situation -- weather, schedule, kids, whatever -- prevent outdoor riding, a trainer is better than sitting on your arse.

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'07 Cervelo R3, '10 Lapierre Xelius

Before Obree had the Hour he was racing and winning road and TT races. Guess how he still trained? Oh yeah doing intervals on his shitty stationary bike

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"Step forward the climber and all those who worship at the altar of lightness" - R. Millar

If watts are watts, get on an arm-cranked ergometer and do your cycling FTP for an hour and then get back to me.

Watts are watts only at the rear tire-pavement interface. Only there does it not matter how they're produced, assuming you can also produce them for the same amount of time.

Been there, done that. What's the point?

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"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

Obree defined his stationery trainer session as the most critical training day of his training cycle, there was absolutely no substitute for it.

Brad Wiggins and Sky also place critical importance on the use of stationery trainers now as well.

I just don't see why any racer that has used them properly would not see the benefits of them?

And to save distractions like the poster above, yes we all enjoy riding outside, that's not the debate.

Any of you here heard of a cyclist named Arnie Baker?
Or his book SMART Cycling? If not try to get ahold of
a copy, and take a good look at what he has to say about
trainer work-outs. I will say no more on this.

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AEROLITUS-defender of the faith

An ergo can be used for maintenance, and the majority of cyclists use it for just that, when the weather is too bad to ride.

Very few road cyclists use it as a way to improve fitness.

But, that's not the ergo's fault.

A cyclist should know that a hard interval session on an ergo is a very effective way to provide gains.

It's been raining here for the past week , and i've done 5 ergo rides in the last week, with 3 long or hard ergo sessions. The long/hard sessions are all interval sessions. And by the end of the session, I am pretty buggered, and I know I will see gains further down the road due to the sessions.

For me, it's gives the same level of gains as riding on the road.

The stochastic nature of road riding can't be simulated on an ergo, so it doesn't give the same specific gains, but it does give gains in other areas which are actually just as beneficial overall.

Stella, I don't think anyone can convince you that an ergo is of any use to you as a tool for providing gains, your mind is made up.

But for those of us who understand how to use an ergo effectively for gains, it is very useful.

Cheers,
metal

Sorry could you expand a bit? I certainly wont read anything written by some obscur cyclist who named his book, smart cycling....

eww

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2013 rocky mountain vertex 29er
­Twitter
www.cyclingtrainingnuts.blogspot.ca

It doesn't seem that bad Devinci. After all, Friel is a relatively obscure person too and his book titles are just as pretentious. "Training Bible" anyone? Arnie Barker might sound a bit of a geeky name, but to many Joseph Friel sounds more like a Gregorian Monk than a cyclist, and "Training Bible" only confirms the religious connotation of name. But let's not judge on names, shall we?

Anyway, I did not read Arnie Barker's books, only spent a few minutes reading the reviews and discussions surrounding his books.
It seems that Arnie puts heavy emphasis on trainer work to produce results, perhaps moreso than outdoor riding (?)

Gotta say, after reading the reviews and discussions I'm more interested now.

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Exp001

I am probably just showing my age, but Joe Friel and Arnie Baker were pretty well known just a few years ago, and were considered pretty credible. Have you guys heard of "Eddie B" ?

I guess it just lends credibility to tapeworm's signature. Who will remember Chris Carmichael and/or "that Coggins guy" in another decade ?

I find that the difference between road and trainer is huge. The resistance is very different and so much more constant on a trainer. However nothing beats a quality session on the trainer in winter time when temperatures are too low for any efficient, high intensity outdoor training to take place.

When I do train indoors it's (almost) always with wattage to maintain a certain level of control over what I am doing.

That said temperatures have to be at least below -5°C for me to pick indoor training for intervals.

During x-mas I had my planned "off season" and did mostly easy sessions on the trainer to maintain cycling specific fitness and prepare for 16 days on Gran Canaria, and it worked out great. My shape was much better than the year before when I'd used my MTB to ride trails in the same prior period. The use of an indoor trainer definitely didn't hurt, but a generally improved fitness over 2011 was also to blame.

As for Obree... he definitely knew his body well, but if his methods can be recommended for other people I'm not too sure. They seem rather radical and very mentally demanding, something not suitable for most and definitely not me. His book was an enjoyable read though, but for example "Cutting edge cycling" by Hunter Allen and Cheung has been far more informative and useful for me.


Addition: Why I don't really like indoor training - I produce a helluva lot of heat and sweat. Two sessions (1 hr at threshold each) and my Zero pedals were rusted, bleeding.. my shoes were dripping and had to be dried..

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12 Canyon Aeroad CF 9.0 ETE
12 Canyon Ultimate AL
11 Cervélo P2

I do know Friel a lot and even heard of Baker books a few times.

It doesnt mean I buy into everything Friel says and it most of all doesnt mean he is not outdated on some topics.

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2013 rocky mountain vertex 29er
­Twitter
www.cyclingtrainingnuts.blogspot.ca

I agree. But I am just pointing out that the same thing will probably happen to what we think we know now.

My mere opinion is that training works, but people ramp up to near their genetic potential pretty fast. Most of athletic ability is genetic. So a champion who trains on a trainer thinks "This works because I trained on my trainer." A champion who never likes trainers thinks "This works because I don't waste time on a trainer."....
And nobody listens to the opinions of non-champions either way.

got your point

though I disagree RE genetic potential being reached pretty fast.

_________________
2013 rocky mountain vertex 29er
­Twitter
www.cyclingtrainingnuts.blogspot.ca