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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:26 pm 
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the sponsors didn't get any money back. the $75 million LA was complaining about was the loss of future income.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:36 pm 
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wassertreter wrote:
Rick wrote:
"Guilty" or not, I see this as a witch hunt motivated by the hope of extracting money from Armstrong.

Only that USADA and those who might seek compensation are different entities.
As for USADA leading the hunt, rather than calling it a witch hunt, the skeptical observer could potentially view it as a trophy hunt. Tygart got his trophy, but the apple in Armstrong's mouth still awaits. I'm willing to let Tygart get his trophy in exchange for his hard work and risk. But I'd like to know why the U.S. Attorney dropped the investigation against Armstrong - maybe some of Armstrong's money and influence well spent, or perhaps just a diligent civil servant with the noblest of reasons?


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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:36 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:50 am 
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swinter wrote:
the sponsors didn't get any money back. the $75 million LA was complaining about was the loss of future income.


The sponsors made money as a result of having Lance on their team.

Trek Bicycles
Giro Helmets
Radioshack
24HR Fitness Centers
FRS Sports Drinks
Anheuser-Busch
Nissan
Sunglasses maker Oakley
Fitness equipment manufacturer Johnson Health Tech
Bicycle component maker SRAM

The sponsors will milk it for as long as they can.

Only when they are me with disapproval of the public will they dump their cash cow.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:56 am 
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Rick wrote:
A young, successful athlete was "arrogant and narcissistic".....Boo frikken Hoo. When has that ever been a reason hate them ?!?!?
He "ruined peoples lives"....because he kicked people who were hostile to him off the team, etc ? Boo Hoo.
.


He ruined people's careers. Frankie Andreu wasn't allowed to get job with a major team. When he did, Kendra 5 Hour energy just happened to not get into any stage races last year. Anyone who wrote anything even remotely against him lost their job. He sued the London Times for writing true stories, and won.

Then there's those Frederick Bassons and Fillippe Simeoni....

And it's very possible that Hamilton testing positive, Landis testing positive, then Contador testing positive when all three were perceived by Armstrong to be threats may not be a coincidence. He had connections, we know that. I'm not saying Armstrong is the all-powerful puppetmaster. But he was getting warnings about tests. He was asked for payment, presumably a return for favors. We really don't know.

The guy was and remains ruthless. This isn't really about drugs.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:04 am 
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stella-azzurra wrote:
J-Nice wrote:
To put a certain perspective on the doping issue, Michael Rasmussen utilized 5 blood transfusions, 100,000 I.U. of EPO, and cortisone and testosterone during the 2007 Tour, the one where he and Contador went mano-a-mano in the mountains until "The Chicken" was unceremoniously ousted.

That's a lot of doping.


What is your point? Rasmussen needed a lot of blood to achieve those results?
How many bags did Contador need?

Chill out. Maybe if you weren't so needlessly combative you'd learn something.

The point of my post was to provide a window into the type of doping some of these guys were/are up to to achieve their performances. It puts a perspective into the actual details, as opposed to just assuming "everyone was/is doing it".

As for Contador, I haven't heard what the exact details of his program was like.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:24 am 
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Did Rasmussen say this? or did this info come from some source you personally know?
Where do you get your info really?

I am awestruck by your presence on this forum. Please teach me. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Worth re-watching the original reaction in favour of LA from some dumb-dumb pros again. Not too many pros sticking up for him now.

Judgement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSIi-YWM2Xs


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Worth watching! ;)
http://youtu.be/thyFmxusB9E?t=4m18s

His problems that Emma O'Reilly was paid for his testimony - he says because of it it has no journalistic credibility.

I wonder if armstrong was free for Oprah...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Rick wrote:
sawyer wrote:
Is anyone on this forum still sticking up for this guy?

I guess I am.
"Guilty" or not, I see this as a witch hunt motivated by the hope of extracting money from Armstrong.
I am not defending cheating, but his cheating was no worse than most of the other top racers of his time. Lance just actually won races and made a lot of money. Hence the witch-hunt to "get him".
Some of the side issues that invariably get mentioned:
A young, successful athlete was "arrogant and narcissistic".....Boo frikken Hoo. When has that ever been a reason hate them ?!?!?
He "ruined peoples lives"....because he kicked people who were hostile to him off the team, etc ? Boo Hoo.
(Now if he really made death threats or anything, that is a felony and should be prosecuted like any felony. )

So my "defense" may be weak, but I just think the whole lance thing is blown totally out of proportion only because he was actually the most talented and succesful.


I guess your "witch-hunt" is what people generally consider the repayment of an ill-gotten fortune.

There's no doubt at all this wouldn't be anything like as big a deal if he hadn't been so "sucessful". Does that surprise you?


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 Post subject: Will Armstrong confess??
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:55 pm 
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What fortune isn't ill-gotten? We as a society create the greed, selfish and win-at-all-cost environment and celebrate those who are successful within those conditions. Then we scream and curse those that use the available means to achieve those things. What about the others? We find scapegoats to attack and devour for the characteristics that reflect our own......

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:22 pm 
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Armstrong took entirely the wrong tack in his interview with Oprah. Here's what he should have said.

Oprah: Did you take performance enhancing drugs and blood infusions for your 7 Tour de France victories and then lie about it and bully people who told the truth about you?

Lance: Was that wrong? Should I not have done that? I tell you, I gotta plead ignorance on this thing, because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started racing bicycles that that sort of thing is frowned upon... you know, cause I've raced in a lot of places, and I tell you, people do that all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvNS7JfcMM


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:28 pm 
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btompkins0112 wrote:
What fortune isn't ill-gotten? We as a society create the greed, selfish and win-at-all-cost environment and celebrate those who are successful within those conditions. Then we scream and curse those that use the available means to achieve those things. What about the others? We find scapegoats to attack and devour for the characteristics that reflect our own......


Yeah I know, "it's all society's fault".

I've heard obese people use that justification too.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:44 pm 
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On SNL last night

http://www.hulu.com/watch/447653

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:59 pm 
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Rick wrote:
A young, successful athlete was "arrogant and narcissistic".....Boo frikken Hoo. When has that ever been a reason hate them ?!?!?
He "ruined peoples lives"....because he kicked people who were hostile to him off the team, etc ? Boo Hoo.


He had people who were unwilling to join him in illegal activity fired? Boo frikken Hoo.

He had them blacklisted from other jobs? Boo Hoo.

He destroyed the businesses of people who suspected the truth? Crybabies.

He fraudulently sued people who told the truth about him and perverted the legal system to steal millions of dollars from them? Cheese with that whine?

He had his associates conduct campaigns of threats and harrasment against accusers? Grow a thicker skin.

He slandered people who knew too much, calling them crazy, blackmailers and whores (not just an insult, actual allegations of prostitution)? Suck it up cupcake.


People need to get a grip - it's not like he ever called anyone fat!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:37 pm 
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sawyer wrote:
Yeah I know, "it's all society's fault".


It's no more societies fault that lance doped than it is Lance's fault that others such as Frankie Andreu doped.


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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:37 pm 


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