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 Post subject: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:49 am
Posts: 6
I was half-assedly fitted to my new Cervelo R3. With my lack of road bike knowledge, I was persuaded by the salesman to go with the size 54, but I am now so stretched out, I feel like I'm riding Graeme O'bree's superman position. I'm feeling a lot of back and neck pain if I ride on the hoods, so I've resorted to riding mostly on the bar tops.

The thing is I have really long legs and a short torso. I'm considering changing frame size but I'm not sure if the next size down 51 will be okay or if I should try and make a size 48 fit. The top tube of the 48 seems to be right on, however, I'm a little concerned about potential saddle and head tube height issues. I know this size was intended for much shorter people.

My measurements and fit according to the Competitive Cyclist calculator are as follows:
Image

By the way, I'm not keen on really short stems due to the nervous/twitchy ride and I'm above average in flexibility, just short in the top half! I'm riding with the stem slammed on the size 54, and I feel like I could go lower if I had to, but I don't want to sacrifice too much comfort. My saddle height is 75cm with about 6cm of setback. I think I need at least this much setback due to my long femurs; so simply changing to a straight post in place of my Dorico will probably not improve things.


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 Post subject: Cervelo Fit Issue
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:13 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 635
Location: UK
What length stem do you currently have? Also what bars, as the reach can vary wildly. Finally do you ride mostly on the hoods or the drops?

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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Your measurements match mine within 1-2cm; you are on the correct size with a 54cm. From your description that's what I would put you on; so I question why you are so demeaning of the person who fit you.

You claim a lack of road bike knowledge so how do you know you are on the incorrect frame size? I have no doubt that you may have some pain but: How long have you been riding for? I moved from mtb to road and it felt awkward for a long time. Likewise it took me a while to get used to riding my TT bike after my road bike (initially). How many miles/kms have you logged?

I was hit by a car and was off the bike for the past 6 weeks and just began riding outside again this week. I initially took my bike with the lowest stack and had some lower back soreness - because I wasn't used to the position -but its not wrong.

What I'm trying to convey is: open your mind a bit; no point in slagging people off. Post a pic of you on a trainer so we can see what is going on here. And I seriously doubt you'd want to go to a frame w/less stack so a smaller Cervelo would be out.

Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:40 am
Posts: 424
Location: Switzerland
Hincapie wrote:
I was half-assedly fitted to my new Cervelo R3. With my lack of road bike knowledge, I was persuaded by the salesman to go with the size 54, but I am now so stretched out, I feel like I'm riding Graeme O'bree's superman position. I'm feeling a lot of back and neck pain if I ride on the hoods, so I've resorted to riding mostly on the bar tops.

The thing is I have really long legs and a short torso. I'm considering changing frame size but I'm not sure if the next size down 51 will be okay or if I should try and make a size 48 fit. The top tube of the 48 seems to be right on, however, I'm a little concerned about potential saddle and head tube height issues. I know this size was intended for much shorter people.

My measurements and fit according to the Competitive Cyclist calculator are as follows:
Image

By the way, I'm not keen on really short stems due to the nervous/twitchy ride and I'm above average in flexibility, just short in the top half! I'm riding with the stem slammed on the size 54, and I feel like I could go lower if I had to, but I don't want to sacrifice too much comfort. My saddle height is 75cm with about 6cm of setback. I think I need at least this much setback due to my long femurs; so simply changing to a straight post in place of my Dorico will probably not improve things.


your femurs aren't THAT long, relatively short in relation to your inseam i would say
have you been postioned in relation to the bottom bracket ? (knee over pedal spindle with crank arm at three o'clock, cleats (first!) in the correct position)

BTW the reach of a 51 is only 9 mm less than the 54

please give us your stem lenght and type of handlebar

txs


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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:38 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
I'm similar in height and build, albeit I have a shorter inseam. I recently moved from a size 54 RS to an R3, due to a warranty issue. I've typically used a 90mm stem ... but with the R3, I had to moved to an 80mm, as I was experiencing the symptoms you're seeing (mild elbow discomfort from being over-extended, neck-pain, lower-back pain). Honestly, I was hesitant to move to an 80mm ... as I thought it would not look cool. But the bike feels great with it. And, the bike handles fine.

I'm also using an FSA Omega compact bar (reach 80mm, I believe). If I wanted to keep the 90mm stem .... I suppose I could find a shorter reach bar (Deda and Ritchey have options I've seen). But, changing stems seemed like a cheaper short-term option to "diagnose" my discomfort.

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:19 pm
Posts: 900
Location: South Carolina
This topic seems to come up often. I too have contemplated a smaller bike, and I am about the same height as you with a shorter inseam. I have looked into the Cervelo 51s just by comparison to others that have been on the Test team and the Garmin team who are my/our size, and they all seem to be on the 51.

HUMP

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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:17 pm
Posts: 326
6cm seems to be a lot of set back. I have virtually identical leg measurements to yours, and am riding 2.5cm set back on a 73.5° seat tube. Any reason why your seat is that far back?


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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:19 pm
Posts: 900
Location: South Carolina
2.5cm seems really short, are you measuring from the BB to the tip of saddle? 2.5 would more than likely put you all the way forward on the rails.

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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:04 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:33 pm
Posts: 239
HUMP DIESEL wrote:
I have looked into the Cervelo 51s just by comparison to others that have been on the Test team and the Garmin team who are my/our size, and they all seem to be on the 51.



you can't compare yourself to a pro as not only do most of the pros have flexibility beyond the ww (not weight weenie, weekend warrior), but most of them size down to get the lower head tube height (for aerodynamics). that would be uncomfortable for the working stiffs who don't ride 700 Km per week.


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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:49 am
Posts: 6
bikewithnoname wrote:
What length stem do you currently have? Also what bars, as the reach can vary wildly. Finally do you ride mostly on the hoods or the drops?

I've tried 90mm - 120mm stems. My knees were banging on the 90mm when I got out of the saddle sometimes. The larger stems are less twitchy and give me a lot more steering confidence.

I ride near the hoods mostly, about 7cm back on either side of the bar top and I feel fine there. My back isn't stretched out, nor is it overly upright. It just looks and feels good to me.

You are right about the bars, mine are quite long in reach (89mm 3T Ergonosum).

maggierose wrote:
I question why you are so demeaning of the person who fit you.

Well this person's idea of a fit was to simply look at me off the bike, so it wasn't really a fit. They told me I wasn't even allowed to sit on one of their bikes. Plus I've had a number of mechanical issues due to the mechanics incompetence so I think I'm justified.

maggierose wrote:
You claim a lack of road bike knowledge so how do you know you are on the incorrect frame size?

I've been to a few other bike shops to sort out my mechanical woes and they seem to agree.

maggierose wrote:
I initially took my bike with the lowest stack and had some lower back soreness - because I wasn't used to the position -but its not wrong.

Yes, but I've had my bike for a year now and I've given just about every position full acclimatization period. The one I have now feels good except for the reach.

maggierose wrote:
Post a pic of you on a trainer so we can see what is going on here.

I don't have a trainer but I'll try get some pics up.


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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:49 am
Posts: 6
GT56 wrote:
have you been postioned in relation to the bottom bracket ? (knee over pedal spindle with crank arm at three o'clock, cleats (first!) in the correct position)

BTW the reach of a 51 is only 9 mm less than the 54


There seems to be a lot of disagreement over KOPS but it appears I am approx. 2cm behind KOPS at the moment.

ScottGoBlue wrote:
I suppose I could find a shorter reach bar (Deda and Ritchey have options I've seen)


Yep, seems like Deda bars with the RHM geo (75.8mm) and the Ritchey's WCS Curve (73mm) with others in the 75-80mm range. Unfortunately 3T's shortest bar is the Ergonova and I don't like the egg shape.

ScottGoBlue wrote:
Honestly, I was hesitant to move to an 80mm ... as I thought it would not look cool. But the bike feels great with it. And, the bike handles fine.


Have you ridden other bikes to compare? LBS's I have spoken to have told me that the Cervelo due to it's geography is not a great steering frame. My personal experience with the short stem is that it's too twitchy.


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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:49 am
Posts: 6
HUMP DIESEL wrote:
This topic seems to come up often. I too have contemplated a smaller bike, and I am about the same height as you with a shorter inseam. I have looked into the Cervelo 51s just by comparison to others that have been on the Test team and the Garmin team who are my/our size, and they all seem to be on the 51.


Yes it does. In an effort to be comfortable I've looked through all the forums and I've seen this too:

Rider - Frame size (cm) - Height (cm)

Arvesen 54 183
Bak 58 190
Blaudzun 56 180
Breschel 54 181
Cancellara 58 186
Cuesta 54 176
Gustov 54 179
Johansen 58 188
Julich 56 181
Klostergaard 54 182
Kroon 56 180
Ljungqvist 58 189
Michaelsen 56 185
O'Grady 54 176
Pedersen 48 170
Roberts 56 181
Sastre 51 173
Schleck, F. 56 186
Schleck, A. 56 186
Sørensen, C. 56 185
Sørensen, N. 56 182
Vandevelde 56 180
Voigt 58 189
Zabriskie 56 183

(Credit: Rouleur, Cervelo forums)

and;

I had difficulties in choosing the right framesize. Here is som figures the importer in Denmark (with cooperation with Riis Cycling) gave me. These numbers are no absolute fit guide and should be seen as a guideline. The length overlap the size



48 size 152cm - 168cm

51 size 165cm - 177cm

54 size 175cm - 180cm

56 size 178cm - 185cm

58 size 182cm - 193cm

61 size 191cm - and up

Credit: Karim, Cervelo forum)

Granted, these are for the previous geometry (prior to 2011).

Pharmstrong wrote:
6cm seems to be a lot of set back. I have virtually identical leg measurements to yours, and am riding 2.5cm set back on a 73.5° seat tube. Any reason why your seat is that far back?


If you look at the CC fit calculator recommendations in my post this doesn't appear to be a lot of setback.


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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:49 am
Posts: 6
r_mutt wrote:
you can't compare yourself to a pro as no only do most of the pros have flexibility beyond the ww (not weight weenie, weekend warrior), but most of them size down to get the lower head tube height (for aerodynamics). that would be uncomfortable for the working stiffs who don't ride 700 Km per week.


There are many people on cycling forums that say this, but I don't see why all pros would sacrifice comfort for aero, especially when most of them are riding behind a wheel most of the time. They all ride pretty much the same cockpit setup but they can't all be equally flexible. Everyone has their own genetic limitations and riding can improve on that but no amount of riding can help you exceed your limitations. So I still don't get all the small bikes.


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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:27 pm 
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in the industry
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:45 pm
Posts: 2487
Location: London, UK
What you're overlooking is that a professional rider will have better flexibility than a regular rider. A while ago there was a feature on Chris Boardman's Gan Eddy Merckx MXL. He is about my height and proportions, yet the reach on his MXL was much longer than I had or have on any bike I have ever owned. I can only attribute this to his better flexibility. Interestingly his position appears to have become less extreme in retirement as he has reverted back to a normal physique!


Last edited by Powerful Pete on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deleted quote. PP


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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:27 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Cervelo Fit Issue
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:41 pm 
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in the industry
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:45 pm
Posts: 2487
Location: London, UK
Hincapie wrote:
I was half-assedly fitted to my new Cervelo R3. With my lack of road bike knowledge, I was persuaded by the salesman to go with the size 54, but I am now so stretched out, I feel like I'm riding Graeme O'bree's superman position. I'm feeling a lot of back and neck pain if I ride on the hoods, so I've resorted to riding mostly on the bar tops.

The thing is I have really long legs and a short torso. I'm considering changing frame size but I'm not sure if the next size down 51 will be okay or if I should try and make a size 48 fit. The top tube of the 48 seems to be right on, however, I'm a little concerned about potential saddle and head tube height issues. I know this size was intended for much shorter people.

My measurements and fit according to the Competitive Cyclist calculator are as follows:
Image

By the way, I'm not keen on really short stems due to the nervous/twitchy ride and I'm above average in flexibility, just short in the top half! I'm riding with the stem slammed on the size 54, and I feel like I could go lower if I had to, but I don't want to sacrifice too much comfort. My saddle height is 75cm with about 6cm of setback. I think I need at least this much setback due to my long femurs; so simply changing to a straight post in place of my Dorico will probably not improve things.
To the bolded, I agree. The salesman should have told you to consider a different bike. All too often I have had customers come in to buy a bike having narrowed down their choice in advance. They already can see themselves on the bike, irrespective of whether it will fit them. All they think there is left to do is sort out which size and model. Get a proper fit with the model of bike ignored, then look at whether you can get that to work on the R3. If you can't, sell it or return it to the shop as not fit for purpose.


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