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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:09 am 
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LOL

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Giant DK wrote:
stella-azzurra wrote:
I think the following are clean: 53x12, artray, KWalker, elviento, prendrefeu everyone else is on something.


Try an google 53x12.com :P



Hahaha, very funny guys. :thumbup:


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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:32 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Timo wrote:
Still curious why people list Gilbert despite the fact that he had his stunning 2011 season backed by doctor Jose Ibarguren Taus and with the strange Wim Vansevenant TB500 case in mind.



I think it is because he slowly became more successful the more and more doping controls were introduced. If you look at his career, he continually progressed until his peak (2011). Doesn't mean he didn't try doping, but it lends credit to the belief that he is clean(ish).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:11 pm 
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Who's riding clean? Well, I would guess:
Gilbert (God, I hope so)
Not Cancellara (Too much time on CSC for my liking)
Do recreational drugs (Boonen, probably Sagan) count?
Cavendish would surely weigh less if he was on something
I can't see Hushovd being clean. Just can't. Sprinters that can climb smell off to me. Chuck Degenkolb in there too. Oscar Freire can go in that basket too.
Matt Goss is clean IMHO, because he can't really climb, and to be honest, he's not a spectacular sprinter either. Kittel, Renshaw, Ciolek and those guys fit in there.
That list of riders that floated around after one of the grand tours with a suspicion level of doping (I'm assuming related to the bio-passport) was interesting. Didn't it put Cuddles on the same level as Armstrong - and Denis Menchov way way up there? Knowing what we know now - makes fascinating re-reading.
We reckon Rogers is going to get ditched by Sky (or vice versa), what about EBH? Talk about either the greatest natural talent in years, or...
That's my opinion anyway. And that's all it is.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Thor isn't a true sprinter though. Sure he can win some uphill sprints, but he can't keep up with the likes of Cav. I think of Thor as more of a classics guy. Can do some sprinting. Can do some climbs. I don't see anything real fishy. He has been fairly consistent from year to year except for those years he had injuries. This isn't the kind of rider blowing his competition away like they are riding in cement. I would be much more weary of others before him. But in this day and age, who knows.

Gilbert, I agree. I sure hope he is clean. But you never know.

Cancellara, I don't know. I kinda hold him with Gilbert. I really hope he is clean, but he has spent a lot of time at CSC and then with the Schleck brothers.

What about riders like Breschel, Devolder, Roelandts, Gustav Erik Larsson?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:08 am 
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I'd hope that Rodriguez is clean. Enjoy his riding. His past teams don't give this positive outlook much hope though...

ONCE: 2000-2003
Saunier-Duval: '04-'05
Caisse d'Epargne: '06-'09
Katusha: '10-...

A lot of the spanish guys seem suspicious to me. The only nations that seem to be more vocal about anti-doping are the US and UK- just my observation

Personally, I give classics riders the benefit of the doubt but who knows anymore. Sad stuff going on. I hope things are actually done to combat all of this, especially within the UCI.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:12 am 
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SpoonMan wrote:
Gilbert (God, I hope so)

Well, 2011 was his super season and his doctor that year was Jose Ibarguren Taus

Ibarguren is currently under investigation because he was Lampre team doctor in 2002 (when Rumsas was caught using EPO). Also, he was Saunier Duval team doctor in 2008 when Mayo, Piepoli and Ricco were high on CERA. When questioned by the French police in 1998, Willy Voet already mentioned Ibarguren as the man who provided him with the EPO for the Festina team. Since the start of 2012 Ibarguren is the QuickStep team doctor.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:21 am 
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qwop wrote:
I'd hope that Rodriguez is clean.

I'm not a big fan of the Katusha medial team. Doctor Thomas Klimaschka worked with Team Phonak when riders like Guidi, Botero, Camenzind,Hamilton and Landis were caught using EPO. Doctor Andrei Mikhailov was caught by the French police during the 1998 Tour de France. He claimed the EPO he carried with him that day as doctor of Team TVM was for a Russian childrens hospital. He was tried, conficted and fined in France. Head of the Katusha medical team is doctor Massiomo Besnati.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:17 am 
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Timo - that's why it's only a hope. I'd propose that there are very few riders that could be assumed to be clean, due to the pervasive pingers of doping - your example is a good one.

Our friend Mr. Phinney started out at Trek-Livestrong, and we know Lance's involvement - as well as the known doper Axel Merckx. Do we throw him under the bus as well?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:17 am 
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If you've read Tyler Hamilton's book, you get the impression that nobody in the top half of a Grand Tour is clean.

Also, riding badly does not vindicate a rider of PED use.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:46 am 
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Now? Most of them, five years ago? Hardly any of them


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Location: Australia
sawyer wrote:
Wiggins (UK)
Cavendish (UK)
Stannard (UK)
Froome (UK)
Thomas (UK)
Sutton (UK)
Dowsett (UK)


If that is CJ Sutton, unless he has changed his nationality isn't he an Aussie


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Well as hill climb times have come down a bit in the last few years the average power output per kg (of rider) has gone down to to figure that can be achieved by humans without doping. 10+ years ago this was not the case. so says "more or less" on radio4 so it has to be true!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Really funny that Wiggins makes it on the list to so many of you. Watch the stages of this year tour again.


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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:24 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Woah, people think Vokler is clean? talk about Donkey to thoroughbred !


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