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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:41 pm 
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+ 1 elviento .Its sad to say but that is the way team sport is and if you want to be part of the team you have to comply . Not many top sportsman see drugs as such a big issue as we do . For them it's just part of what they do. When an athlete says they are shocked to hear about so and so has doped thats a bunch of cr%p .


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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:41 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:51 pm 
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elviento wrote:
I met quite a few exdopers in person, truly believe many of them are "nice" individuals (whatever that means), but as part of the regime they didn't have a meaningful choice.


Sure they had a choice. Maybe they didn't have a "choice" if they wanted to compete at the elite international level and be one of the top riders in the world. But they still had a choice. Even if that meant them being perpetually a CAT 1 racer and having to work at the local hardware store. They still had a choice. No one held a gun to their head. They could have walked away at any point and said, "screw it" my values are more important than this. But no, they wanted the fame, glory, money and excitement that professional cycling would offer. Even if that meant doping, since everyone else does it it is just "an expectation" of the sport. They still had/have a choice.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:02 pm 
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Not a truer word said.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Jens.....I don't believe he ever did/would.

Phinney, Tejay, Busche, Dombro, etc. I think are all clean.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Yup everyone at CSC doped but Jens... I don't really know if I even believe him, but if I were to guess on a type of clean riders its the breakaway artists who win mainly because they get into a lucky move that the peloton gives too much leeway

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:08 pm 
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It saddens me but I'm a bit weary of Sagan.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:01 pm 
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LeePaton wrote:
It saddens me but I'm a bit weary of Sagan.


Almost too good to be true, especially considering his age.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:41 am 
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"Almost too good to be true, especially considering his age."

Kinda like Thomas Dekker, Ricco, Cunego...etc.?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:33 am 
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One of these is probably what Sagan is into. And I'm sure Vino will get the entire Astana tem doping to gilles by the next cycling season.

http://sportsanddrugs.procon.org/view.r ... eID=002706


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:24 am 
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I think the following are clean: 53x12, artray, KWalker, elviento, prendrefeu everyone else is on something.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:36 am 
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While technically true, I do find that view a bit draconian. Afterall it's their job and their career. Maybe they have raced since childhood and maybe it's the only thing they are good at? Lance was winning major races at 18 and 19 and you want him to quit and become a mediocre accountant?

In addition, I wonder how informed they are in the process. Athletes take so many supplements (heck, even the average guy takes a lot these days) that the difference becomes blurred. They are merely taught not to trigger the thresholds. It's like bikes have to be 6.8 to be legal, but if you use some AX/THM bits on a Ultegra equipped steel frame, are you violating the rules? Rules become more a matter of technicality rather than morality at some point.


53x12 wrote:
Sure they had a choice. ... They still had/have a choice.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:42 am 
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Define 'clean'.
Extensive caffeine usage was considered doping back then and riders were disqualified for using caffeine pills. Now caffeine is legal and I'm using it before races, generally time trials.
PED's are not neccesary illegal doping. Every rider is using what is available and is not on a banned substance list. It's just a matter of a line where a rider takes a needle...
I really hope that legends like Jens, Fabian, Philippe and many others raced clean, but I have a hard time believing they have never used any PED's. But if they did, doping definitely didn't turn them into the darkside like spanish riders back then who I believe used doping more than food. But one thing I'm completely sure of, they are 100% clean now.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:44 am 
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53x12 wrote:
Evans has some questionable ties to a dirty doctor so I won't include him on the list for myself.

Full explanation of his 'relationship' with Ferrari hopefully going to be published in the coming months.

Will let the internationals know if/when it happens.

Needless to say, it should put to bed this discussion.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:09 am 
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So Evans just paid for training advice then?

Sorry if I'm cynical, but we've heard it all before.

Look forward to reading the article TP when you get it.


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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:09 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:09 am 
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