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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:16 pm 
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Posts: 6
Im looking for a new TT bike, or rather my first TT bike and i wanna hear what you people think about my picks sofar:

BMC TimeMachine TM01, seems like a really nice frame and i can get one for around 5000$ with ultegra, that leaves me money to get a pair of for example Flo wheels, disc back and 90 front. And a PowerMeter, maybe a power2max. 5000 for the bike, 1200 for the wheels and 1400 for the PM.

Trek SpeedConcept 7.5, also seems like a real nice frame. Same tech as in the 9 series frames but with some more weigth and not the same carbon. Ultegra/DA gears. Get new Flo wheels and a PM here aswell for around the same cash as the BMC.

Canyon Speedmax CF EVO, looks really fast but hard to say anything about it as it's still to be realesed. I would get Ultegra Di2 though for around 5k. Plus wheels and PM.

If we forget about fit (im still young and flexable), are there any other bike for me to consider in this pricesegment. Ofcourse we have the P3 but im not a big Cervelo fan. Im still looking for some Wind tunnel data comparing frames and TT frames but i cant seem to find anything usefull. The thing about the BMC and the Trek is it seems they have a better SeatAngle then the Canyon. How much does this fact matter? 78 vs 73.5.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:53 pm 
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While its nice to forget about fit its still an absolute to get the correct frame for you. I have great flexibility and that still leaves me not fitting a bike that is long and low. With my 87.9 cm legs and short torso I have to ride a frame that is short and tall. My Scott Plasma 2 works perfect for me but that does not mean its even a reasonable choice for you. The best thing is to make your choice from the results of a fitting or at least post accurate body measurements including height and weight.

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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:53 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
Bigf1sh wrote:
Best TT bike without selling a kidney?


Probably this one:
Image

Ummm... The Hong-fu will be

a) cheaper (up to 1/6th the cost of other framesets)
b) competitively aero (has all the latest & greatest aero design concepts)
c) customizable without breaking your wallet

I believe there is a group buy over at velobuild right now, you may be able to bring the price down substantially. :wink:

But, really, fit matters more than you think. A certain user (mod) here tested an open-mould TT frame vs. a Cervelo in a wind tunnel. Guess which one was faster? It wasn't the Cervelo. Was this a matter of the frame or the fit? Maybe both.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:16 pm 
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There is some data floating around for some bikes, but not the BMC or Canyon.

I think the 7 series Trek is a little bit of an outlier in your decision. Not that its not a fast bike, but a Trek 7 series frame runs ~$2000 whereas the BMC TM01 runs ~$4500.

Anyway, like Juan said, knowing your position will help narrow things down. Though a rider can often balance some fit differences with a smart cockpit choice(i.e. a "tall" aerobar on an otherwise short bike). Most riders ride steeper than 73 degrees on a tt bike, even the pros; though when UCI rules are in place then it typically requires some ingenuity to ride steeper. I don't think 78 is necessarily the end all, be all but I do think that 73 is probably too slack for a good aero position. Canyon has said they'll have a 76.5 degree post available, and with a noseless saddle I'm guessing the bike will be rideable at 78 degrees.

If I had $5K for a tt bike, I'd try and track down a Plasma Premium frame (dealers have them listed online for under $4K, as low as $2.7K) and build up with a rival/force type build kit and a somewhat "tall" aerobar. Thats me though...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Location: Austin, Texas
Two words: Used Cervelo.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
Good idea!

P.S. That Hong-Fu looks like a parachute.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:46 pm 
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^ Truth. Thanks to Cervelo releasing new TT rigs a 2nd hand P3 goes cheap. Hell, a new one goes cheap.

Also I will see if I can find it but there was an article on slowtwitch about aerodynamics and wheels. Down the bottom there is a little snippet that during the testing with rider on bike they could find no discernable difference between frames.

Rider position (and what rider is wearing), helmet, wheels are your priorities.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Tapeworm, I wouldn't make too much of that statement. There have been reliability problems with rider on data due to the size of the MIT wind tunnel, I believe its called "blockage." After riding with a powermeter and going from something basic to something more advanced, I believe wholeheartedly that there is a difference between frames.

Anyways, if you really wanted to go budget but a somewhat more proven design, the Planet X Exocet 2 at least "checks" most of the boxes with 3:1 tube shapes, decent junction fillets, nice internal routing, seat tube cutout, drop down tube, *better than some alternatives* NACA tube shapes... Its biggest drawback is probably its wide headtube, which is only one thing, but its a detail that makes a difference...

Its hard to tell if the Hong Fu has similarly well thought out design cues. We don't know tube widths, ratios or how shapes were selected.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:04 pm 
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That may be true but regardless of the article the "order of aero" still stands.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:35 pm 
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Location: Greater Pittsburgh
The one that fits...

Seriously, the rider accounts for the vast majority of the drag, so the best bike will be the that fits... You would be much faster on a well-fitting, round tube steel bike, than the most aero super bike if ill-fitting...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:44 am 
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Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
+1 on Tapeworm's suggestions.

Personally I think getting a 'fast' frame is the least of your worries, particularly given that the savings identified in wind tunnels are relatively small on a seconds per £ basis and typically do not translate fully from the wind tunnel onto the road.

Better to find something nasty and very cheap (round, steel, second hand, possibly a small road frame) which allows you to test various positions, then use careful measurements so that you get a better frame which will work for you. Focusing the same money on training advice, testing and then other equipment will produce faster times. Of course, if money is not an issue...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:19 am 
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Another "seconded" for the "no need to get a high zoot frame" crowd. What about trying to get a, say, three year old NOS top-of-the-range frame? Chances are you'll save a considerable amount of dough, which you can spend on wheels and stuff. Not sure how much testing/scrutiny the Flow wheels have gotten compared to HED/Zipp/younameit.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:55 pm 
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As nice as the new uber bikes maybe you don't really need one to go fast. Body position is 90%. anything from P3s onwards are only losing an absolute max of 200grams (~20W) of drag over a speed concept 9.9 or shiv with nosecone etc. However there may come a time when you can warrant those last few watts (for big $/w).

Personally very tempted to get a new Canyon when they are released to replace my 2007 P3. IMHO it does all the little aero tweaks the way I prefer them. Just got to wait for the geometry chart (and hope they actually make it in my size for a change...). Not sure about Di2 only though.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:17 am 
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Location: Latvia
Dolan with used Zipp/HED disc and deep front.

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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:17 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:55 pm 
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Location: Brighton, UK
The new canyon TT bike is sex on wheels! Like you say they might have great deals for the setup with Di2. Its hard to beat that! I'd wait until it comes out! :thumbup:

The pro's seem to be running the bike with huge saddle to bar drops. Adjustibility could be an issue so be sure you can fit the frame!

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