KWalker wrote:Get a proper fit.
Knee pain in the front of the knee can come from q-factor, seat being too forward, too high, too low, too far back, etc. and there is no way to really know.
I had terrible knee pain early this season in the front of my knee and was convinced my seat was too far forward. I saw 3 orthos who diagnosed it as inflamed plica and then had a fit with one of Hogg's guys, who moved my seat 18mm lower and 13mm more forward. Pain disappeared within a week. Having my seat too far back meant that my leverage angles were terrible on climbs and I had to use a lot of pedal force. The seat being too high caused an unstable pelvis, which shot down my legs and destabilized my knees. The plica then rubbed on the joint on every pedal stroke and became completely inflamed. The fitter also removed my LLD shim since it was on the wrong foot and my hip dropping was from a muscular imbalance.
I can almost guarantee your seat is still too high. Moving it forward just shortened your effective seat height, which is why it feels better. Too high can cause knee pain. If I were you I'd set the seat in the exact middle of the rails at a height about 30mm lower than it is now and use Hogg's height guide going 3-6mm at a time. Remove the shims as well or go down to just 3mm on the leg. If you start to notice knee acceleration in just that knee with a 3mm raise, try another shim and see if its equalized. Always film the hips from the back and both sides as well. Plenty of videos to figure this out for free. Once you have absolutely zero knee acceleration and a good feeling on the pedals through the entire stroke then start the fore aft test, but make sure to raise/lower the seat on an arc measuring height to the same point on the saddle from the bb. Rarely are shims that big needed and rarely do people have a verified X-rayed LLD of that length. It sounds like you simply don't know what you're doing and are using google searches to give you incomplete explanations.
Also, SolidSnake03- does this imply that you're supposedly broke yet own a 2003 Cobra? I hope not b/c that'd be a bit ironic.
Own a 2003 cobra? What are you talking about? I'm a 22 year old college undergrade with no car living in a tiny 1 room place sleeping across from my bike because there isn't more room. The 90proof friend is in reference to Jim Beam Devils Cut which is a 90proof Bourbon that I enjoy quite a bit.
Now to pick apart your mildly righteous and "I know better than you" post in a step wise manner if you do so mind:
-Bike Fit's, I have had 2 bike fits so far both of which were at the "Top Guys in my area" which would be Madison WI if you care to know. In both cases this was a full bike fit and cost all of the extra money I had for that summer being why I have had 2 in 2 years. In each case I still had saddle pain, back pain and leg dropping issues and after multiple return trips was in not so many words told "sorry we don't know what is hurting you so much"
-When I moved my saddle forward I ALSO raised it up to compensate for this resulting in roughly the same leg feelings. I have determined my current saddle height BASED EXACTLY ON WHAT YOU SAID! I based it on how controlled/stable my legs felt throughout the pedal stroke while climbing the largest constant grade hill I could find. I used Hogg's method to determine my height and it came out to be about ~.5cm lower than both fits had set it at.
-I have repeated tested both on a trainer and outside actually riding with and without shims and without shims the pain is extensive. All of the issues I have mentioned before come only WITHOUT the shims. Once I add a large stack to my right shoe my body finally feels even, my hips stabilize and my knee stops caving in. I added the shims ~3mm at a time until I reached my final height which is where my body seems to be happy
-Also going back briefly to the saddle height issue, I have experimented with a saddle height UP TO ~2cm lowered than it currently is and this only increased the pain below my knee's as well as de-stabilizing my body and generally making me feel very "cramped up" so to speak. To put it quite simply, at a level that low my leg and knee were barely extending and I was weaker on a bike than I have ever been.
-In reference to your LLD comment, I have had this x-ray'd and confirmed by a orthopedic doctor in my area that has seen many of the top University Athletes and whose own son is a nationally ranked triathlete. This man knows his sports in other words and the LLD difference is what he found via X-ray. If you like I can provide all of his contact information as well as the actual x-rays showing the measurable difference. I would have to contact his office first to get the photo's however he already hold me they are available if any bike fitter needs them as he has been extremely understanding about this whole thing. I went to him following the second failed fit because all my signs like right hip feeling like it's falling of the saddle, left side saddle sores, right knee falling in etc.... pointed to leg length shim's being needed to me.
-Returning to the LLD comment as well, if you actually read more of my previous posts you would see that I walk and run in custom orthodics with a 1cm heel lift for my right leg and this has SIGNIFICANTLY improved my day to day life. It has essentially cured my tight right side, hip pain, leg inflexion when walking and improved my sense of balance. Also, as a point I forgot to mention earlier the LLD is significant enough that you can actually see it physically if you place a ruler or straight edge across my legs. It's very[b]
[/b] noticeable if you use the knee, foot and hip joints as measuring points. In addition the exact same amount, ~1cm shorter right leg was originally detected by the University Health Services Sports Medicine Physician I went to see who then referred me to the orthopedic doc I mentioned prior.
-As a final point, I am a senior molecular microbiologist that has been keeping a "lab notebook" of sorts of all my cycling activities and changes for the past 2 years. I have dated notes, diagrams and measurements from almost every change I have ever made and can provide photo's upon photo's of this if you would like. To put it quite frankly, I'm not just googling and guessing, I'm going about this in the most scientific and controlled way I possibly can based on my current financial limitations. I'm more than just a bit offended by your original assumptions and as such have taken a tone that indicates this if you couldn't detect it in my writing.
Now after reading all this and hopefully understanding it do you want to still claim that I am "It sounds like you simply don't know what you're doing and are using google searches to give you incomplete explanations.