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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:53 am 
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Hi everyone!

Well I'm wondering if any of you have either some advice or personally experiences that might help me out with an interesting fit issue I'm dealing with. My right leg is 1cm shorter than the left, .5cm below knee and .5cm above the knee. As a result of this I have found through some trial and error that an 8mm stack on the right leg seems to help my pelvis feel much more balanced on the saddle, doesn't feel like it's falling off anymore.

Anyhow, the issue I still have is that my right leg seems to collapse in a bit when I ride meaning that on the pedal stroke my thigh is rubbing/brushing the saddle nose. This only happens on the right side while the left has a nice gap between the nose and the thigh. I don't have large thighs being a very skinny climber guy so I don't believe that to be the issue.

Anyone have any suggestions or ideas why my right leg seems to be collapsing in a bit/I'm brushing the saddle nose?

Thanks!

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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:53 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:21 am 
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if your leg only moves in when going back down, i'd look at arch support first, varus shoe wedging second.
when your arch collapses, it forces your leg to tilt in. if your arch is fully supported and your leg still dives in, a small wedge correction tilting your forefoot out can solve that.
good luck.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:33 am 
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5mm stack on the right cleat and move the left cleat back by 5mm. That should balance things out - the twisting in the saddle is the imbalance in the femur.

I have 1cm imbalance in the femur which caused similar issues for many a year.

Anyway hope it helps.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:12 am 
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Thanks for the suggestions. Increasing arch support and wedging did NOT help at all. I went from low level arch support on my eSoles to the highest and no change in the knee. Also went from no wedge to 3 large one's and again no change to the knee.

Will try adjusting front to back cleat placement next, any other suggestions are more than welcome :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:38 am 
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*update*

I was finally able to make some improvement to the movement of my right leg.
Increase Arch Height=Fail
Increased Shim stack=Fail
Moved Left Cleats rearward 5mm=Small change maybe
Slammed saddle all the way forward=LARGE Improvement!

It seems that shoving my saddle all the way forward finally caused the right leg to stop flexing so much. I seem to have much more control of it now. I will be looking into a 0 offset seatpost possibly....

Any suggestions here or idea's what is going on?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:40 am 
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it's possible that your leg length discrepancy is greater than 1cm, and you may benefit from additional stack. slamming the saddle forward has the side effect of lowering the saddle a bit. moving your left cleat back extends that leg more...
just to test, put the saddle back where it was and instead lower the saddle 5mm. just curious.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:45 pm 
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thisisatest wrote:
it's possible that your leg length discrepancy is greater than 1cm, and you may benefit from additional stack. slamming the saddle forward has the side effect of lowering the saddle a bit. moving your left cleat back extends that leg more...
just to test, put the saddle back where it was and instead lower the saddle 5mm. just curious.


Have done this already, I actually dropped the saddle over 2cm's just to see if that had any effect. It didn't. I had my saddle so low I was barely sitting on it and the right leg still kept collapsing in with the knee diving toward the top tube and my thigh brushing the saddle nose on the right side.

Also, I had the leg length difference measured and x-ray photographed by 2 different doctor's both of which confirmed approximately 1cm total with 5mm below knee and 5mm above.

I'm considering switching to a zero offset seatpost and seeing if that combined with saddle more forward seems to help...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Are u sitting square on the saddle as a starting point?

I find with my >1cm leg leg discrepancy (short right) my right hip tends to creep forward on the saddle causing inside thigh rub. If your right leg is dominant u will commonly find u will be a little right hip down to maintain optimal position if your shim stack isn't quite enough.

Just a thought, if u want decent answers/suggestions instead of vague guesses, throw up a video of your setup and pedal stroke... Pretty easy and u may find the answer...

Have a look at the stevehogg's bike fitting blogs about right side bias, leg length discrepancy and shimming/wedging, might give u some ideas to try...

Edit:
If it helps, what fixed my inside thigh rub was right cleat fwd 3mm, increased stance wigth (q factor 5mm) saddle back 5mm, increased right shims to 6mm, and added 2 varus wedges... Still a work in progress tho... But it's pretty much sorted now, and no more rubbing or saddle sores...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:15 pm 
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Normally I would consider that I'm not sitting squarely on the saddle however I have tried moving around with the saddle at the previous amount of setback and it doesn't change the knee's motion. The knee still dives in toward the top tube causing the saddle nose rubbing.

Slamming the seat all the way forward with NO CHANGE to anything else *shim height, wedging, arch support* causes the knee to immediately begin tracking correctly and the rubbing stops. If I purposely sit all the way back on the saddle the knee starts diving in again.

The knee's movement inward and the saddle rubbing seem to be directly proportional to how far back my saddle is set back. Note this only happens on my right side, at the previous setback amount and at the slammed forward the left knee and leg tracks completely straight.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:29 pm 
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I have a left side shorter (somewhere in upper leg or hip) and the same knee tracking issue you descibe with that knee. That is, the knee tracks in as the leg comes down. my situation has been greatly improved with 2 varus 1.5 degree wedges on left, left cleat moved forward 5mm, 1mm left shim. To me, it does sound like you are twisting your hips (to make up for a short femur) to aid reach and causing rub. I do ride with a zero offset seat post and, although I am a tall rider ( at 6'1" with a 36" bike inseam) and use a 80.8cm saddle height, I ride with only a 7.8cm setback. This keeps my hips open and lets me get very low. I'm glad that you seem to have solved your issue.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Hello there!
Same as you,I've got a right leg 1,5 cm shorter than my left one. As expected my right knee does not track straight but comes closer to the tt every downstroke. I have been experimenting with lots of changes for about 2 years in order to correct my position and improve my pedalstroke. I solved my problem with a 1,2 cm shim between the right shoe-cleat (big one i know), a specialized varus wedge inside the shoe, by placing the left cleat some mm back than the right one and finally by moving my saddle 5 mm front. All i used was feeling,experience and little changes one at a time. Its sure you can't have the perfect result but eventually i have no more saddle sores in the left part of my butt, my knees are free of pain(with so much dicrepancy i couldnt accomodate both legs in a good position) also my weaker right leg is getting much much stronger(a little more and i'll make them even).
I believe forefoot varus is a trick of nature trying to "correct" llds and make walking easier...
Good luck and dont worry you can still nail everybody and be a very strong cyclist even with uneven legs!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:24 am 
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CRAP!

Ok so took my bike out for an easy 20mile today and the knee was back to caving in after only 5miles or so. The saddle slammed up didn't really help :cry:

I'm going to try to most accurately describe whats going on in bullet points and see if anything else strikes anyone. I'm wondering if I just need super high arch support possibly to keep the knee from collapsing?

-right knee dives in toward top tube like I'm pronating
-my little toes*the outer edge ones* on my right foot seem to get numb but all the toes on my left foot are fine as are the big and "pointer" right toe
-it feels like my right foot is at and outside angle almost like the big toe and next toe are up in the air and I'm pushing with the outside of foot then they collapse down causing the knee to go in
-sore lower back seems to be more on the right side even though I don't ride particularly low and I have respectable flexability
-left sit bone/inside of butt is sore while right still feels like It's hanging off saddle
-have ~9mm of shims under right shoe in addition to cleat being about ~6mm ahead of the left
-right leg is 1cm in total shorter, .5cm below knee and .5cm above


Ugh this is driving me nuts and the two bike fits I have had in the past didn't do jack to help it >_<

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:51 am 
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what pedals? what is your stance width? do your toes point inward or out (heel out/in)?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:10 am 
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What your experiencing sounds very similar to what I'm trying to sort out myself, also had a few fits also but still no luck.

The difference in opinion regarding fit leaves me a bit confused. The Hogg style of fit (for example) will say fit the cleats fore/aft in relation to each ball of the foot, then shim for leg length difference. However another fitter will say its better to push the cleat back on the longer leg and shims should be the last resort (from what I have read). I don't know for certain but I imagine this would give a very different cleat position. I'd of thought the shorter leg in most cases would have the smaller foot so, the fore/aft of the 2 methods would give opposite positions because with the Hogg style, the smaller foot would have the cleat further back?

Hope you sort things out.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:31 am 
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a lot of people cant tolerate cleat shift. it's compounded when stacking shims, as it's often practiced to move the cleat back slightly on top of shims to equalize the foot's perception of cleat placement. i personally only use it for a couple mm.


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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:31 am 


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