HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm
Posts: 81
Craigagogo wrote:
Stava's admission of liability, case closed.

I think Strava should sue for negligence their lawyer that was responsible for the first iteration of their "Terms and Conditions".


Hmm not sure I agree this is an admission of liability. They updated their Terms and Conditions so that the next time someone tries a similar lawsuit, they can point to this language in their T's & C's as part of their defense (including a motion for summary judgment), but are you saying that absent a legal disclaimer, they are responsible for users for harming themselves while riding beyond their ability and/or breaking the law?

As an example, I know not to stick my fingers in the garbage disposal when it is running. If I am a garbage disposal company and I get sued by a guy who decides to stick his fingers in the garbage disposal to see what happens, and I decide as a result of that lawsuit that on a go-forward basis, I will place a disclaimer on the garbage disposal switch stating "DO NOT STICK YOUR FINGERS IN THE GARBAGE DISPOSAL WHILE IT IS RUNNING" (i.e. stating the obvious), does that mean I am admitting liability to the first guy who stuck his fingers in the garbage disposal?

_________________
S5 VWD | 9070 di2 | Rotor 3D+ SRM | Enve 6.7s
Cannondale SuperX Hi-Mod Disc | Sram Red | Rotor 3D+ SRM | Zipp 303s
P5 | 9070 di2 | TriRig Alpha/Sigma | Quarq Elsa | Zipp 808/Super 9 Disc
T1 | Scatto | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:10 pm
Posts: 362
Location: Ontario, Canada
If the case goes to trail I expect that the plaintiff would jump all over the change in terms and conditions after the fact. Perhaps Strava is worried about a flood of litigation, so suck it up on this case and move on...

Strava settles out of court. Case closed.

_________________
Its a joke! (the Avatar)


Last edited by Craigagogo on Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:06 am 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7453
Location: Los Angeles
refthimos wrote:
As an example, I know not to stick my fingers in the garbage disposal when it is running. If I am a garbage disposal company and I get sued by a guy who decides to stick his fingers in the garbage disposal to see what happens, and I decide as a result of that lawsuit that on a go-forward basis, I will place a disclaimer on the garbage disposal switch stating "DO NOT STICK YOUR FINGERS IN THE GARBAGE DISPOSAL WHILE IT IS RUNNING" (i.e. stating the obvious), does that mean I am admitting liability to the first guy who stuck his fingers in the garbage disposal?


In the United States?
Yes.

McDonalds infamously lost a lawsuit someone brought up for millions of USD when hot coffee spilled in their lap. The hot coffee they just ordered spilled in their lap on their own doing. They claimed pain & suffering. Now every cup of hot coffee states the obvious: "caution! contents may be hot!"

_________________
Exp001


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm
Posts: 81
prendrefeu wrote:
McDonalds infamously lost a lawsuit someone brought up for millions of USD when hot coffee spilled in their lap. The hot coffee they just ordered spilled in their lap on their own doing. They claimed pain & suffering. Now every cup of hot coffee states the obvious: "caution! contents may be hot!"


The thing about the McDonald's case is the jury found that McDonald's was making their coffee crazy hot (i.e. undrinkable) and thus they found that McDonald's was making the coffee a heck of a lot more dangerous than it needed to be. I'm not saying I agree with that verdict, but the idea is that they could have served the product in a way that was not unnecessarily dangerous. I believe they also found the woman partially negligent for having the coffee in her lap, so they basically found McDonald's partially liable and the woman herself partially liable for her injury.

I find Strava to be different. There is no way to make the service safer unless you shut it down - the entire concept of chasing record times is at risk. The cyclists using the site are engaging in an inherently dangerous activity whether or not they use Strava - carrying a cup of coffee is not an inherently dangerous activity - at least it shouldn't be.

_________________
S5 VWD | 9070 di2 | Rotor 3D+ SRM | Enve 6.7s
Cannondale SuperX Hi-Mod Disc | Sram Red | Rotor 3D+ SRM | Zipp 303s
P5 | 9070 di2 | TriRig Alpha/Sigma | Quarq Elsa | Zipp 808/Super 9 Disc
T1 | Scatto | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:20 pm
Posts: 1055
Location: New Zealand
prendrefeu wrote:
Unfortunately there will always be people in the world who become overly obsessed with things that ultimately have very little value in life, and sadly their obsession can lead to the risk upon their own health.


Agreed, but being a WW doesn't count in the above does it? :mrgreen:

_________________
2012 BMC SLR 6.02kg http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110390


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:04 am
Posts: 153
refthimos wrote:
prendrefeu wrote:
McDonalds infamously lost a lawsuit someone brought up for millions of USD when hot coffee spilled in their lap. The hot coffee they just ordered spilled in their lap on their own doing. They claimed pain & suffering. Now every cup of hot coffee states the obvious: "caution! contents may be hot!"


The thing about the McDonald's case is the jury found that McDonald's was making their coffee crazy hot (i.e. undrinkable) and thus they found that McDonald's was making the coffee a heck of a lot more dangerous than it needed to be. I'm not saying I agree with that verdict, but the idea is that they could have served the product in a way that was not unnecessarily dangerous. I believe they also found the woman partially negligent for having the coffee in her lap, so they basically found McDonald's partially liable and the woman herself partially liable for her injury.


What is also not remembered in this case (and many others) is that the monetary damages were greatly reduced by appeals court afterwards.

In the USA there is no penalty for the person bringing (sometimes frivolous) lawsuits to court. IIRC, in some countries you are penalized when you are a losing plaintiff.

sent by tapatalk because my computer is a paperweight


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:19 pm
Posts: 1948
Location: On Pave
well you get this off Strava when someone else beat your record
Quote:
Uh oh! Paul Darby just stole your KOM!

Hey John,

You just lost your KOM on St Marys Ringway Climb to Paul Darby by 19 seconds.

Better get out there and show him who’s boss!

-Your friends at Strava


and now they have sent out a new terms and conditions email

its dodgy ground
but Strava didnt kill that cyclist
his inability to ride faster was his own undoing
I feel for his family

_________________
i like people... i just can't stand assholes


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:22 pm
Posts: 840
Location: London
I agree with you Roobay. While I completely agree that people people need to be spenda little more time considering what the repercussions of the actions may be, there are 2 things that lead me to believe that Strava could lose this case. I think they will end up settling out of court and making some changes to their site.

Firstly, the emails that egg people on. Sending out emails that say "hey, get out there and race this section of road faster" are on pretty shakey ground. While they were probably intended to compliment the uphill KOM segments, the fact that users can create a downhill segments gives these emails a somewhat more dangerous meaning.

Secondly, those changes to the terms of service don't look good. It suggests they thing that their old terms do not provide them with a disclaimer of liability.

_________________
Snacking on carrot sticks - Where did it all go so wrong?
-
Finsbury Park CC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:42 pm
Posts: 3913
Location: lat 38.9677 lon 77.3366
The family wants Starva to put out cones, control traffic. I actually like that idea. Restrict cars everywhere there is a Strava route. Oh one can dream :idea:

_________________
WW Velocipedist Gargantuan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:06 am
Posts: 636
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Absolutely not
How about the family go and sue the following for contributing to his death:
bike manufacturer
Tyre manufacturer
Helmet manufacturer
His riding buddies


How about them accepting that he was obsessive in his behavior, and HIS AND ONLY HIS ACTIONS LEAD TO HIS DEATH.

_________________
Ozrider - Western Australia
Parlee Z5 XL 2011 (6055g/13.32lbs) Raleigh RC Ltd 2008 (7.6kg) Reynolds 653 Custom 1990 (9.8kg, now 8.8kg)
The accumulation of marginal gains is what makes the difference between winning and losing


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:22 pm
Posts: 686
Location: Brooklyn
Ozrider wrote:
Absolutely not
How about the family go and sue the following for contributing to his death:
bike manufacturer
Tyre manufacturer
Helmet manufacturer
His riding buddies


How about them accepting that he was obsessive in his behavior, and HIS AND ONLY HIS ACTIONS LEAD TO HIS DEATH.


I was thinking the same where would it end. You could sue his parents for not raising him to understand his own limitations and the list goes on.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 1164
CBJ wrote:
Ozrider wrote:
Absolutely not
How about the family go and sue the following for contributing to his death:
bike manufacturer
Tyre manufacturer
Helmet manufacturer
His riding buddies


How about them accepting that he was obsessive in his behavior, and HIS AND ONLY HIS ACTIONS LEAD TO HIS DEATH.


I was thinking the same where would it end. You could sue his parents for not raising him to understand his own limitations and the list goes on.



Or they could say hey he f@cked up and not sue anyone... :!:

Worst thing is here in Australia people are starting to take the American stance of suing others for your own stupidity.. :noidea:

_________________
project black


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:15 pm
Posts: 40
refthimos wrote:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/family-sues-strava-over-descending-death_224889

It's tragic when someone dies riding their bike, but at some point as cyclists, we have to take responsibility for our riding behavior and not try to blame others for "making me do it."

Very sad for his family, but suing Strava is not the answer.


Carelessness killed him (along with contributory negligence).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:15 pm
Posts: 40
refthimos wrote:
Craigagogo wrote:
Stava's admission of liability, case closed.

I think Strava should sue for negligence their lawyer that was responsible for the first iteration of their "Terms and Conditions".


Hmm not sure I agree this is an admission of liability. They updated their Terms and Conditions so that the next time someone tries a similar lawsuit, they can point to this language in their T's & C's as part of their defense (including a motion for summary judgment), but are you saying that absent a legal disclaimer, they are responsible for users for harming themselves while riding beyond their ability and/or breaking the law?

As an example, I know not to stick my fingers in the garbage disposal when it is running. If I am a garbage disposal company and I get sued by a guy who decides to stick his fingers in the garbage disposal to see what happens, and I decide as a result of that lawsuit that on a go-forward basis, I will place a disclaimer on the garbage disposal switch stating "DO NOT STICK YOUR FINGERS IN THE GARBAGE DISPOSAL WHILE IT IS RUNNING" (i.e. stating the obvious), does that mean I am admitting liability to the first guy who stuck his fingers in the garbage disposal?


Which of you two is the lawyer?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:20 pm
Posts: 28
Ozrider wrote:
Absolutely not
How about the family go and sue the following for contributing to his death:
bike manufacturer
Tyre manufacturer
Helmet manufacturer
His riding buddies


How about them accepting that he was obsessive in his behavior, and HIS AND ONLY HIS ACTIONS LEAD TO HIS DEATH.


+1

I find it unfortunate that a company which has helped innovate the way we train, will have to suffer because of this.

On a lighter side of things, "Blame Strava" could be a new Internet meme.
Dude1 - "I wasn't able to reclaim my KOM, so I had to immediately buy those Lightweight Obermayers"
Dude2 - "Hell yeah. That's the only way you'll get it back"
...
Wife - "Why did you spend $6K on wheels?!"
Dude1 - "Blame Strava"
:lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:40 pm 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexa [Bot] and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists? (courtesy: The New York Times)

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Cycle Chat

kac

21

1652

Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:48 pm

kac View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Strava cheats.

[ Go to page: 1 ... 4, 5, 6 ]

in Cycle Chat

Juanmoretime

76

6505

Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:58 am

airwise View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Strava and Instagram.

in GPS, Strava, Ride pics and adventures.

Tillquist

10

1488

Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:49 pm

wojchiech View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Strava and Commuting

in Cycle Chat

Devon

14

539

Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:39 am

Devon View the latest post


It is currently Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:25 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB