To further this:


To convict someone through the judicial system, they must be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This means that if there is ANY possible chance, that the evidence does not meet these requirements - he could be found innocent. (think OJ Simpson). Without a "smoking gun", the case is mostly circumstantial (although highly so) - and would likely have very little success in court. Not to mention the Barry Bonds case for perjury took years to resolve, imagine how long it would take federal prosecutors to prove Armstrong used PED's - thereby defrauding the US government beyond a shadow of a doubt. Armstrong would likely employ a must stronger defense than Barry Bonds.

However, to convict him through civil means, you simply have to prove that the burden of proof exists for such an event to have transpired a certain way. The USADA used this action to convict him. Because they (were to) proved that there was an overwhlelming chance that Armstrong did infact that PED's, he would be guilty (although he decided to not fight the charges).

I feel for a certain friend of Michael Barry's on here, who was convinced he was clean.

Guess you really never can know (short of the lab results and witness testimonies of course ).

_________________
Baum Ristretto, Baum Mondrian Corretto & the '89 Merckx! | "If you could eat it in one sitting, hold your line." | twitter.com/Tinea_Pedis

Levi Leipheimer affidavit-

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Le ... idavit.pdf

David Zabriskie affidavit-

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Za ... idavit.pdf

_________________
Check out the latest controversies in sport-

http://berzin.blogspot.com/

what a lovely read. especially Levi asking Bruyneel to set up a doping program for le Tour (78)vand Dave singing his EPO song (32). and they get what, six months?

after digging through both of them i feel the notion of either banning all pro cyclists on earth or forgiving all their sins and just letting them be as they are, is becoming more and more justified

oh, and one more thing, where is this devil Lance chasing his mates with bags of blood and forcing them to dope or else...?

Only a matter of time before DZ's Epo song is put on youtube to music. lol

_________________
"Sacred to the god Aesculapius"

Regarding Levi Leipheimer's affadavit:

On p. 2 paragraph 14. "I have more podium finishes in grand tours than any American cyclist other than Greg Lemond and Lance Armstrong." So with the USADA ruling, is Leipheimer now number 2 among Americans in grand tour podium finishes (presuming retracted results don't count)? Actually, Leipheimer signed the affadavit on September 21, 2012, which is after USADA stripped Armstrong's results, so does that make Leipheimer's statement not correct in some sense? It's also interesting to note, that Leipheimer admitted (p. 11) to doping in the 2007 TdF in which he placed 3rd. Does he get to keep that podium finish? And this was after what some poster here said was the 2006 ending date for admitted doping.

On p. 13 paragraph 98: My favorite quote. This is fantastic. "I recall in 2009 or 2010 discussing with Lance a theoretical new drug being discussed in the media. I asked him if he knew anything about it and his response was "you know I am always down for it" by which I understood him to be saying that he was always willing to try a new doping product.

Will this be the new Nike slogan "I am always down for it"?

Hammertime, love that second quote.

Anyone else get the feeling that the text to Mrs. Liepheimer in Ca. while the Mr. was at LeTour was something of a solicitation to "just do it"? That's one way to punish a disloyal lieutenant.

_________________
2011 Cannondale SuperSix HiMod: 6.19 kg. / 13.65 lbs.
2005 Fuji Team Issue: 6.6 kg. / 14.5 lbs.

Ther have probably been lots of posts like this, but as a long time WW poster I...I almost don't know what to say. I remember driving back from what still ranks as one of my best races ever in 2004 with a more cynical teammate. He said 'Lance is on it'. I said if he's on it the sport is over for me.

And he was. Screw you Lance.

_________________
My EPS: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=72682

@rico: the sport is bigger than one piece of shit

Yeah I know. It won't stop me from getting on my bike

_________________
My EPS: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=72682

Can people now apply for refunds for their Trek Madones, as they were purchased under false pretenses?

It really took one rider to turn you off to pro cycling? lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... in_cycling

"Doping in cycling since 1886 and going strong."

Doping has been with us, is with us and will continue to be with us. Part of our history. Viva la epo!

_________________
"Sacred to the god Aesculapius"

That's great. Thanks for proving how cool you are.

_________________
My EPS: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=72682

I think I captured this very conversation with a photo I took at the Tour of California a few years ago...one of my favorites during a lucky encounter in a parking garage in Sacramento while the team was prepping for the prologue.....