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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:28 pm 
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maquisard wrote:
People believe in religion despite all the evidence to the contrary.


:thumbup:


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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:28 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Posts: 350
maquisard wrote:
airwise wrote:
Why, if they had all of this evidence, did the Federal Investigators close their investigation almost overnight with no charges being made?


- The burden of proof required in a Federal case is much tighter. Cases can be thrown out on technicalities. This evidence didn't meet those requirements.



To further this:


To convict someone through the judicial system, they must be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This means that if there is ANY possible chance, that the evidence does not meet these requirements - he could be found innocent. (think OJ Simpson). Without a "smoking gun", the case is mostly circumstantial (although highly so) - and would likely have very little success in court. Not to mention the Barry Bonds case for perjury took years to resolve, imagine how long it would take federal prosecutors to prove Armstrong used PED's - thereby defrauding the US government beyond a shadow of a doubt. Armstrong would likely employ a must stronger defense than Barry Bonds.

However, to convict him through civil means, you simply have to prove that the burden of proof exists for such an event to have transpired a certain way. The USADA used this action to convict him. Because they (were to) proved that there was an overwhlelming chance that Armstrong did infact that PED's, he would be guilty (although he decided to not fight the charges).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:43 pm 
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I feel for a certain friend of Michael Barry's on here, who was convinced he was clean.

Guess you really never can know (short of the lab results and witness testimonies of course ).

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:59 pm 
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Levi Leipheimer affidavit-

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Le ... idavit.pdf

David Zabriskie affidavit-

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Za ... idavit.pdf

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Check out the latest controversies in sport-

http://berzin.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:48 am 
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what a lovely read. especially Levi asking Bruyneel to set up a doping program for le Tour (78)vand Dave singing his EPO song (32). and they get what, six months? :lol:

after digging through both of them i feel the notion of either banning all pro cyclists on earth or forgiving all their sins and just letting them be as they are, is becoming more and more justified

oh, and one more thing, where is this devil Lance chasing his mates with bags of blood and forcing them to dope or else...?

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If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a.... clean cyclist!


Last edited by tymon_tm on Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:53 am 
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Only a matter of time before DZ's Epo song is put on youtube to music. lol


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:23 am 
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Regarding Levi Leipheimer's affadavit:

On p. 2 paragraph 14. "I have more podium finishes in grand tours than any American cyclist other than Greg Lemond and Lance Armstrong." So with the USADA ruling, is Leipheimer now number 2 among Americans in grand tour podium finishes (presuming retracted results don't count)? Actually, Leipheimer signed the affadavit on September 21, 2012, which is after USADA stripped Armstrong's results, so does that make Leipheimer's statement not correct in some sense? It's also interesting to note, that Leipheimer admitted (p. 11) to doping in the 2007 TdF in which he placed 3rd. Does he get to keep that podium finish? And this was after what some poster here said was the 2006 ending date for admitted doping.

On p. 13 paragraph 98: My favorite quote. This is fantastic. "I recall in 2009 or 2010 discussing with Lance a theoretical new drug being discussed in the media. I asked him if he knew anything about it and his response was "you know I am always down for it" by which I understood him to be saying that he was always willing to try a new doping product.

Will this be the new Nike slogan "I am always down for it"?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:37 am 
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Hammertime, love that second quote.

Anyone else get the feeling that the text to Mrs. Liepheimer in Ca. while the Mr. was at LeTour was something of a solicitation to "just do it"? That's one way to punish a disloyal lieutenant.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:44 am 
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Ther have probably been lots of posts like this, but as a long time WW poster I...I almost don't know what to say. I remember driving back from what still ranks as one of my best races ever in 2004 with a more cynical teammate. He said 'Lance is on it'. I said if he's on it the sport is over for me.

And he was. Screw you Lance.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:51 am 
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@rico: the sport is bigger than one piece of shit


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:52 am 
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Yeah I know. It won't stop me from getting on my bike :twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:59 am 
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Can people now apply for refunds for their Trek Madones, as they were purchased under false pretenses?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:52 am 
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rico wrote:
Ther have probably been lots of posts like this, but as a long time WW poster I...I almost don't know what to say. I remember driving back from what still ranks as one of my best races ever in 2004 with a more cynical teammate. He said 'Lance is on it'. I said if he's on it the sport is over for me.

And he was. Screw you Lance.



It really took one rider to turn you off to pro cycling? lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... in_cycling

"Doping in cycling since 1886 and going strong."

Doping has been with us, is with us and will continue to be with us. Part of our history. Viva la epo!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:56 am 
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That's great. Thanks for proving how cool you are.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:09 am 
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Location: Pollock Pines, CA
tymon_tm wrote:
what a lovely read. especially Levi asking Bruyneel to set up a doping program for le Tour (78)vand Dave singing his EPO song (32). and they get what, six months? :lol:?


I think I captured this very conversation with a photo I took at the Tour of California a few years ago...one of my favorites during a lucky encounter in a parking garage in Sacramento while the team was prepping for the prologue.....

Image


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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:09 am 


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