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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:30 pm 
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Toto76 wrote:
I think the big issue here is the taking payment for the goods, then waiting five days to notify him that they were out of stock. THEN the real insult in asking if he would like to purchase them from their next shipment at nearly double the original agreed price. That to me is the whole unethical part to this.


I think your summation is pretty accurate. Don't take payment for stock u don't have. If a mistake has been made to allow this to happen, then be upfront and timely in making this known. Don't take the customers money, then wait 5 days, and offer no explanation as to how this has happened. Furthermore, don't offer any remedy to the problem which is never going to be seen as anything but unacceptable ie offering the desired product at double the original price, as that's just plain dumb.

If I had've placed the order, paid my money, and then received an email the next day saying, "look we apologize, but our inventory software made an error, and took your money for something we didn't have... Here's your money back, & once again apologies for this" then who would've cared? Not I, and no one would've ever heard of it... Surely its not that hard, and good business sense...

To put this back in context, let's just remember that over a week has passed, and I've had no further communication, and still there is no sign of a refund (of $1000USD+). Thankfully, due to the protection via the way I have paid, I am not overly concerned.

It might be small change to some I guess, but I'm sure most sales assistants at Sigma Sports would be jumping up and down if some online retailer hadn't promptly returned their 1000$ USD for goods they couldn't produce!


Last edited by drmutley on Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:30 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:41 pm 
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Toto76 wrote:

They should still supply his wheels at a later date but for the agreed price at which they have been paid for. Ism sure OP is happy to wait but to ask for double the payment is a bit rude.


This might be surprising but I don't entirely agree here. If it was an honest mistake, or an unforeseen glitch, then I wouldn't expect Sigma Sports to take a $500USD hit because of it. Furthermore, I wouldn't want some poor sales guy to get the sack because he forgot to update the inventory system and just lost the company $500. Because of this, I wouldn't have necessarily expected, or wanted, the initial transaction to be honored, BUT, when you receive no explanation of how this has occurred, and are presented with a remedy which wreaks of incompetence, then the riled up customer will more than likely demand they honor their sale price without reservation.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:33 am 
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Hi Guys,

First my disclaimer - I am part of La Fuga, a travel company who share office space with Sigma Sport and we're very friendly with the shop and the staff there. As such, when I saw this thread, I immediately passed things on to them, as I figured it was something they would want to respond to.

drmutley - Nick Frendo is the Sales Manager at Sigma (I've PM'd his address to you, but it can also be found here - http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/content/StaffProfiles), and he is the person you should be speaking with about hopefully reaching the best possible resolution for all involved on this order.

For my part, I wowed as much as anyone when I saw the advertised price on the C35's, but certainly a discount on these wheels makes sense with the C35 updates coming down the line so soon from now - in fact, this exact scenario was foreseen right here on ww in the road forum discussions. I'm assuming that the reason they can't honour the price on an extra set of wheels is that there isn't an extra set of these older (yet-still-current-until-August) wheels around... but it's far better to get the full explanation from the team there.

I hope that helps.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Everyone messes up now and again. What makes businesses good is how they deal with mistakes. A while ago Oakley had a problem where their website messed up yet they honoured the customers who had ordered. Sigma should take the hit for the sake of customer service.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:27 pm 
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js wrote:
Hi Guys,

First my disclaimer - I am part of La Fuga, a travel company who share office space with Sigma Sport and we're very friendly with the shop and the staff there. As such, when I saw this thread, I immediately passed things on to them, as I figured it was something they would want to respond to.

drmutley - Nick Frendo is the Sales Manager at Sigma (I've PM'd his address to you, but it can also be found here - http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/content/StaffProfiles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), and he is the person you should be speaking with about hopefully reaching the best possible resolution for all involved on this order.

For my part, I wowed as much as anyone when I saw the advertised price on the C35's, but certainly a discount on these wheels makes sense with the C35 updates coming down the line so soon from now - in fact, this exact scenario was foreseen right here on ww in the road forum discussions. I'm assuming that the reason they can't honour the price on an extra set of wheels is that there isn't an extra set of these older (yet-still-current-until-August) wheels around... but it's far better to get the full explanation from the team there.

I hope that helps.


Many thanks Js for your efforts. I will forward the communication onto Nick Frendo for his perusal.

Your more than likely correct about the C35s, although having said that, if they have offered the same model wheelset at double the price, there must be still stock of the soon to be superseded 7900 C35s around.



Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
Everyone messes up now and again. What makes businesses good is how they deal with mistakes. A while ago Oakley had a problem where their website messed up yet they honoured the customers who had ordered. Sigma should take the hit for the sake of customer service.


Exactly. Mistakes happen, and most customers, with prompt and upfront communication, would be more than happy to accept this, and move on.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:43 pm 
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I have just now, sent another email to both James Lees, and "the websales" email address, which appears from the SS website to be owned by Alex Duke. I have also CCed a copy of the email to both Nick Frendo, as suggested by Js, and also Ian Whittingham, who is listed as the director of SigmaSports.

I will update if I receive any response.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:06 pm 
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This makes me very angry.

Drmutley is 'unethically' using the internet to try and get something he shouldn't. He is trying to blackmail Sigma and his weapon is the World Wide Web. All that has happened is Drmutley has ordered a product on line which was out of stock. With virtually all on line traders if you order on line money is automatically drawn from your account. Seeing as Sigma mail order dept. were closed over the Jubilee long weekend 2-5 June they responded quite quickly. Sigma do not deserve to be rubbished in this totally disproportionate way. A small common mistake has occured. Sigma should not be dragged through the mud as a result.


Last edited by konky on Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:13 pm 
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konky wrote:
This makes me very angry. Drmutley is 'unethically' using the internet to try and get something he shouldn't. He is trying to blackmail Sigma and his weapon is the World Wide Web. All that has happened is Drmutley has ordered a product on line which was out of stock. With virtually all on line traders if you order on line money is automatically drawn from your account. Sigma made a common mistake by stating a product was in stock when it wasn't. Big deal. It happens. Seeing as Sigma mail order dept. were closed over the Jubilee long weekend 2-5 June they responded quite quickly. Sigma do not deserve to be rubbished in this totally disproportionate way.



If it was out of stock, how did he order it and pay for it? Bank holidays aren't an excuse. Sigma Sport aren't a bank. If their online system can't track stock, why should the customer be affected? These days when I order on line, I expect and usually receive my stuff next day so making him wait is inexcusable.

An unethical retailer could show massive savings on their website to entice customers then just hit them with an email a week later saying they have sold them all and that the product is available for the full RRP.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:08 pm 
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konky wrote:
This makes me very angry.

Drmutley is 'unethically' using the internet to try and get something he shouldn't. He is trying to blackmail Sigma and his weapon is the World Wide Web. All that has happened is Drmutley has ordered a product on line which was out of stock. With virtually all on line traders if you order on line money is automatically drawn from your account. Seeing as Sigma mail order dept. were closed over the Jubilee long weekend 2-5 June they responded quite quickly. Sigma do not deserve to be rubbished in this totally disproportionate way. A small common mistake has occured. Sigma should not be dragged through the mud as a result.

I don't see it like that at all. He was offered the wheels for half price, went for it and then found out he couldn't get them. It's bad of any retailer not to have stock of something they've advertised. If they have run out of the advertised product, then the OP is out of luck and deserves an explanation BUT in this instance, they took his money. That is the difference. The one thing Drmutley isn't getting here is any customer service, which is the main failing for this retailer imo.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
I recently ordered something from CRC showing as in stock (alarm bells was only one in the UK with stock!), paid, 2 days later they sent an email apologising, saying their computer says they have stock but can't find it, canceled my order and gave me a £5 credit (the order was only for £5.98!) to use any way I wanted (no min spend or anything) - I could have reordered the part when it came in and only paid 98p for it.

I found that more than acceptable.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Location: Oxfordshire UK
giant man wrote:
konky wrote:
This makes me very angry.

Drmutley is 'unethically' using the internet to try and get something he shouldn't. He is trying to blackmail Sigma and his weapon is the World Wide Web. All that has happened is Drmutley has ordered a product on line which was out of stock. With virtually all on line traders if you order on line money is automatically drawn from your account. Seeing as Sigma mail order dept. were closed over the Jubilee long weekend 2-5 June they responded quite quickly. Sigma do not deserve to be rubbished in this totally disproportionate way. A small common mistake has occured. Sigma should not be dragged through the mud as a result.

I don't see it like that at all. He was offered the wheels for half price, went for it and then found out he couldn't get them. It's bad of any retailer not to have stock of something they've advertised. If they have run out of the advertised product, then the OP is out of luck and deserves an explanation BUT in this instance, they took his money. That is the difference. The one thing Drmutley isn't getting here is any customer service, which is the main failing for this retailer imo.


OP paid by Paypal which is an instant money transfer. If paid by credit card using the Sigma Sport shopping cart (not credit card via Paypal either) the card issuer will normally reserve the funds on the card and then the transaction is completed by the merchant later. This is why you often see items on your debit and credit card statement several days after the actual transaction takes place.

With regards to the 5 day issue. OP ordered on a Saturday, the following Monday and Tuesday were public holidays in the UK so the order wouldn't have even been picked up by a human until Wednesday. So there's your 5 days.

There is no law in the UK that states stock control must be linked to a live website. Apply chamois cream to that butthurt ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:42 pm 
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There is no law that states a good level of customer service must be given but if shops don't look after their customers they will lose them eventually.

Bank holidays etc are just excuses. The fact that a major retailer doesn't have stock control linked to its website is very poor. It is possible, many do it so by not doing it they are opening themselves up to problems such as this.

I've done the reserve in store facility on their website, paid in full, turned up and found they didn't have it in stock. Can you imagine how happy I was.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:19 pm 
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I just wanted to chime in and give my 2 cents, I own an online clothing store and run everything my self.

Quote:
I have now, 5 (FIVE) days later, received an email from their web sales department stating that their C35s are out of stock, and as remediation for this, they have offered me a replacement set in a weeks time at double the price (ie MSRP). I will attach the emails and order shortly for everyone's perusal.


5 (4 business days) feels like an eternity to buyers, but there is no way of knowing what's going on at sigma - perhaps they have a ton of emails to answer, back ordered or experienced an emergency that delayed your order. I agree though that 4 business days is on the higher end of the amount of time to wait.

Quote:
I would suggest that this whole exercise by SigmaSports appears to be a gimmick to increase traffic to their online sales website, and to generate electronic word of mouth referral via forums etc of this 50% off C35 sale. I doubt they had much, if any stock. SigmaSport have subsequently oversold any stock they may have had, and then poorly communicated this in an unacceptable time frame. I find this whole transaction very unsavory, and totally UNACCEPTABLE.


Trust me, no one wants to make a fake sale so that they can get traffic it takes a lot of time to track returns and incorrect orders that cause over selling. Overselling occurs sometimes and it could be a number of things:

- selling it physically without updating stock
- inspected goods are damaged, therefore not in sellable condition
- depending on a system (no system is immune to overselling) customers can sometimes over buy the item if they are able to get to the check out screen at the same time. There are a lot of scenarios where this can occur.

An automated system is designed to take care of the money processing on an online store, depending on the system this can happen instantaneously (like Paypal) I don't think it's fair to knock the seller for this.

TL:DR - Cut the seller some slack, overselling can happen - no system can prevent this, good ones cost a LOT of money. sigma took a long time to reply and didn't give you your wheels at the price you wanted, it's okay just get a refund and look else where. what they said after is a piss off but maybe they just wanted to see if they could get you the wheels still.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
There is no law that states a good level of customer service must be given but if shops don't look after their customers they will lose them eventually.

Bank holidays etc are just excuses. The fact that a major retailer doesn't have stock control linked to its website is very poor. It is possible, many do it so by not doing it they are opening themselves up to problems such as this.

I've done the reserve in store facility on their website, paid in full, turned up and found they didn't have it in stock. Can you imagine how happy I was.

+1. konky's post beggars belief.


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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:21 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:37 pm 
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-1. Honestly, it doesnt.
Of course the op is entitled to be peed off because he thought he had a great deal & didnt get it.
Of course its not great for Sigma Sports and he is well within reasonable actions to post about it.
Of course Sigma sports should have real-time fully integtated stock control systems.
Of course Sigma Sports SHOULD have turned this negative story into a positive by giving him a new set cheapy cheap

But all that doesnt mitigate the continued "ill keep on defaiming and flaming them until Ive got what I want" which, curiously, seems perfectly acceptable to many here. Sigmas created demand for a product they didnt have, and promptly refunded his money. End of.


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