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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:17 am 
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Location: Mallorca, Spain
I love how this sport has a huge chip on its shoulder over fat, rich dentists who "shouldnt be riding that as they are arent good enough to ride a parlee, lightweights, etc etc"...

The sad reality is 99%, perhaps 100% of us couldnt really JUSTIFY the top end stuff - I remember a conversation I had with a local pro (Toni Colom, now disgraced but another issue) when he had moved to Astana and had a BMC, someone asked him what he thought of it relative to his last bike & he said "its a bike"...overspending relative to incremental performace isnt the unique purvey of MAMILS.

I think of buying expensive gear as cost savings in the long run: If I didnt bike it would either be expensive drugs & other "fun" which would lead enevitably to a very expensive divorce, or expensive heart surgery and loss of income associated with recuperation from a heart attack.

More expensive than Golf? Cheap cycling is cheaper than cheap golf, and in both sports from the cheapest point how much extra you want to spend is your business - my father in la buys new callaways or tailormades every 2 years and still plays off 24!


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:37 am 
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I buy what I buy because I can afford it. I always recommend used and lower end for anyone coming into the sport. When I bought my cheapy cross bike it came with Rival and I love that group and how well it work and I don't really find my Red group any better but the Red does appeal to the weight weenie in me. While I enjoy my light bikes and I can tell subtle difference they don't make me a better or faster rider but I like them anyway.

Life is too short to not ride the best you can afford. I feel them way about food, beer and wine.

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Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:37 am 


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:53 am 
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I love hi-end designed and engineered frames, wheels and components. BUT I always buy them used or NOS. Huge savings.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Location: Winterpeg
Guys...you're talking about two completely different things. The stuff that Kasparz is talking about is completely different from the rich WW weekend warrior world. Sure in both situations they use a bicycle, but that's it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:18 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Bristol, UK
Camilo wrote:
EKIMIKE wrote:
...All those rich old dudes desperate to buy status objects and create the illusion of youth and vigour...plenty of old rich dudes are gullible and desperate....


Ah, such kind comments about people you know nothing about, and so relevant to the discussion.

Post your email address so the gullible, desparate, rich old dudes can check in to validate which price point is appropriate for their particular level of youth and vigor.


I should have made myself clearer. There was no malice in what i was saying. I don't object to anyone buying expensive kit - young/old; skinny/fat; rich/poor.

It's just an observation. :noidea: Lots of people buy fast cars for the same reasons. Lots of people have younger partners for the same reasons. Lots of people have plastic surgery for the same reasons. Status symbols and the appearance of youth and vigour.

Unfortunately, cycling has become desirable. The prices have gone up. We'll just have to live with it.

Like i said, there are always less desirable and less glamorous brands that will fill the gap with less expensive but still high quality goods. :beerchug:

PS I nearly forgot... it's no_need_to_feel_insecure@hotmail.com


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:17 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Quote:
...All those rich old dudes desperate to buy status objects and create the illusion of youth and vigour...plenty of old rich dudes are gullible and desperate....

Quote:
...There was no malice in what i was saying.


Well actually 'gullible and desperate' does have a smattering of malice, don't you think ?

Quote:
Status symbols and the appearance of youth and vigour.


I dunno, people like Alan Sugar & his Pinarellos .. isn't this just cos a lot of guys like nice shiny kit ? Same as the guy with his Bang & Olufsen hifi .. cool looking metal & plastic. And these things are not expensive to those people, so I don't think they are gullible or desperate - they buy it 'cos they can'.

Quote:
Unfortunately, cycling has become desirable. The prices have gone up. We'll just have to live with it.


That's the thing though -- have they really ? Seems to me a highly performing bike is relatively very cheap these days ?


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Juanmoretime wrote:
Life is too short to not ride the best you can afford. I feel them way about food, beer and wine.


Word.

kgt wrote:
I love hi-end designed and engineered frames, wheels and components. BUT I always buy them used or NOS. Huge savings.


Word.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Posts: 332
EKIMIKE:
Quote:
...All those rich old dudes desperate to buy status objects and create the illusion of youth and vigour...plenty of old rich dudes are gullible and desperate....


Camilo:
Quote:
Ah, such kind comments about people you know nothing about, and so relevant to the discussion.

Post your email address so the gullible, desparate, rich old dudes can check in to validate which price point is appropriate for their particular level of youth and vigor.


EKIMIKE:
Quote:
I should have made myself clearer. There was no malice in what i was saying. I don't object to anyone buying expensive kit - young/old; skinny/fat; rich/poor.

It's just an observation. :noidea: Lots of people buy fast cars for the same reasons. Lots of people have younger partners for the same reasons. Lots of people have plastic surgery for the same reasons. Status symbols and the appearance of youth and vigour.

PS I nearly forgot... it's no_need_to_feel_insecure@hotmail.com


Well, what you posted originally, and your attempt at justifiation does nothing to decrease your appearance of malice. Let's see, from the above:

rich old dudes
desperate to buy status objects
create the illusion of youth and vigour
gullible and desperate
[comparing to] younger partners and plastic surgery
Status symbols and the appearance of youth and vigour.
PS I nearly forgot... it's no_need_to_feel_insecure@hotmail.com

Dig in deeper 8-) Unless I'm misreading your articulate words, according to you, they have trivial, petty or improper motiviations, they're lacking in character or proper age range or physical attributes, and they feel insecure.

But no malice intended, OK, sure.
How about this: They buy what they can afford simply because they enjoy it. They are fine people who enjoy life. They don't need anyone's approval and there's no reason to be jealous or make fun of them.

PS: totally agree with the following:
EKIMIKE:
Quote:
Unfortunately, cycling has become desirable. The prices have gone up. We'll just have to live with it.

Like i said, there are always less desirable and less glamorous brands that will fill the gap with less expensive but still high quality goods. :beerchug:


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: DC
I don't care what someone rides as long as they don't ride like a complete asshole. I myself ride what I find most practical for my purposes. When I lived in the Alps, that happened to be a top-end custom frame with carbon tubulars that weighed in the 13lb range. I now live in a major city and race a lot of regional races so I ride an AL frame with an Ebay'd 7900 group, wheels I could only afford through an employee purchase, and generally things that I bought second hand. The only truly new component that I paid full price for was my training wheels, which ended up being more than my frame.

Some people I know still race their $10k bikes and its not my concern whether or not they wipe out and wreck it. We all do shit to make us think we're faster and honestly its no more different than someone buying a powertap and talking about their watts or diet all day.

If you want to ride, you can do so at any price point. Its that simple. What price point that is is entirely up to the rider's budget and discretion. The ONLY time I care is when they're a snob about it, like that old poster StefanR or 90% of the riders on the Rapha forum. Personally, I think its cool when someone has a random, cobbled together rig that works well for them and admire that more than seeing another black bike, with matte black Enves or Lightweights, and whatever parts are cool at the moment but I won't hate on those dudes either for buying that stuff.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Your bike is like your fantasy-wife (and much more). You love her, you want to be with her 24/7, you want to take her to places, you want to buy her the most expensive stuff, because she's worth it. You never deny her anything, you only want her the best of life. You start to miss her on the second day you are apart. It doesn't matter how much you earn, what matters is what comes first... There is no such thing as "spending too much"...

PS! you can always get a new wife, but you will never change your passion for cycling. If you do, then you were not passionate enough to start with...

The campagnolo add sums it up well:
I spent half my life riding bikes. The other half I wasted.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 3267
Location: Natovi Landing
indrek wrote:
Your bike is like your fantasy-wife (and much more). You love her, you want to be with her 24/7, you want to take her to places, you want to buy her the most expensive stuff, because she's worth it. You never deny her anything, you only want her the best of life. You start to miss her on the second day you are apart. It doesn't matter how much you earn, what matters is what comes first... There is no such thing as "spending too much"...

PS! you can always get a new wife, but you will never change your passion for cycling. If you do, then you were not passionate enough to start with...

The campagnolo add sums it up well:
I spent half my life riding bikes. The other half I wasted.


Yes, not campagnolo's though is it?

Not a great deal of original wit in our sport.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:08 pm
Posts: 1365
What is it with dentists? Just how many teeth pullers do we have on this sight ? I just tought Gummy was the only one.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:05 am
Posts: 57
is cheap. People say that you cant buy happiness, but bicycles are pretty close to happiness I think :beerchug:


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:18 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Bristol, UK
Look, if you want to impute malice into what i'm saying, then fine - that's your problem not mine.

There is nothing inherently malicious in the words 'gullible' and 'desperate'. For me, they aptly describe the mental state and behaviour of a particular segment of the market. They (as a segment) are apparently easily led by marketing and undoubtedly keen to obtain and display (and in my experience tell me about) the goods they purchase.

And yes, in my part of the world prices have increased significantly. A particular bike I bought 4 years ago has increased by 20% in price. Same shop. Same spec. Same, unchanged model. The only difference is a slightly altered paint job. 20%. That's quite a difference.

I'm simply making an observation, not having a dig or a moan. At worst i've described the situation as 'unfortunate'. On the contrary, i'm pointing out that it's an 'issue' that can be negated quite easily.


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Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:41 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:34 am 
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Posts: 281
Location: Adelaide, Australia
EKIMIKE wrote:
Look, if you want to impute malice into what i'm saying, then fine - that's your problem not mine.

There is nothing inherently malicious in the words 'gullible' and 'desperate'. For me, they aptly describe the mental state and behaviour of a particular segment of the market. They (as a segment) are apparently easily led by marketing and undoubtedly keen to obtain and display (and in my experience tell me about) the goods they purchase.

And yes, in my part of the world prices have increased significantly. A particular bike I bought 4 years ago has increased by 20% in price. Same shop. Same spec. Same, unchanged model. The only difference is a slightly altered paint job. 20%. That's quite a difference.

I'm simply making an observation, not having a dig or a moan. At worst i've described the situation as 'unfortunate'. On the contrary, i'm pointing out that it's an 'issue' that can be negated quite easily.


out of interest, how much more money do you make now? I'm guessing 20% more? I was at an event about a month ago on my trusty 10.2kg alloy steed with 105 gears and WH-R500 wheels... I was still faster than the vast majority of them... that said, I would have ridden my other bike if it wasn't cracked, but this made me realize that $1500 can get you a lot of bike...

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