Extra Small Frame for Extra Small Rider - with 700c wheels

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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by ave

Come on, 127 cm is way too small for a 700 wheeled bike.

The Islabikes 24" wheel bike's minimum recommended height is 126cm.
http://www.islabikes.co.uk/bike_pages/p ... rt_web.pdf

by Weenie

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by Estelja

I may have mentioned this before when you started your current 24" wheel bike but there is a Taiwanese company called Paco that sells a 1250 gram 24" wheelset 20/24 spoke which may help you keep the current bike going:
http://www.paco-bike.com/product/produc ... php?psn=39
They also sell an 1113 gram frame for 24" wheels:
http://www.paco-bike.com/product/produc ... php?psn=23

I have yet to get an e-mail response from them however so it may prove moot.

Seems like your son's height is still more appropriate for 24". I think 700c would compromise stability with weird rake/trail esp when climbing the steep slopes on Mt. Washington.

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by Camilo

I'm somewhat familiar with the small end of stock 700c frames since my daughter's 5-2 and my wife's barely 5-1". I just took a glance at the specs for two that I have in the garage - the Giant OCR (now known as Defy), "men's" version and a Specialized Dolce (so called WSD).

The smallest size Dolce ("44") compared to the Defy XS, has the lowest standover of the two at 684mm / 27", and both of these frames are about as sloping of a top tube as I've seen. Both have a ~ 50cm horiz. TT measurement, give or take 1/2 cm and 1/2 degree of seat tube angle. In other words, they are close enough in reach to be identical, given normal fore-aft saddle adjustments and 5 to 10 mm difference in stem lengths, and are about as short as I've seen.

By the way, Dolces for the past few years have not been very "feminine" - basic primary colors rather than pastels and pink, so that isn't likely to be an issue, unless you find an older one (in which case a few pro-logo-esque decals from your local sign shop would mitigate that).

The Ruby is a higher end (probably lighter?) line with similar geometry, but has both higher standover and longer reach in it's smallest size. The sloping "men's" bikes are even more-so.

If you take a look at pictures of those frames - which again are about as sloping of production frames as I've personally seen - I try to imagine a 700c frame with a lower standover than the Dolce, and it's hard. So, I think that 27" is about as low as you'll find.

If you think you can get him to ride a bike with too-high a standover (by the way, many of us spent our ignorant youth riding such bikes and it worked out!), I think you could get into a frame and fork of this caliber for <$500 net.... (read on)...

My wife's Dolce "Elite", which is kind of a mid-high point in that line has the same frame as the higher end Dolces and a full carbon fork. It's a nice looking frameset. For all I know the cheaper ones use the same frameset too, but I can't tell. Don't know the weight though. If you can find one of the Dolce Elites used, if my experience is any indication, the full bike will be $500-800 on the used market, a good enough price to strip the parts and wheels, ebay them all for a couple-three hundred for a net decent frame/fork for pretty far south of $500. By finding a bike that differs from the better models only by the parts, not the frame, you're not paying a lot for good parts you already have, and don't have to squeeze the last dollar out of ebay sales to get the F&F down to what you might need it to be.

I'm interested in this thread, being that I live among small people. I'll be curious to see how it comes together for you.

Just a thought - as this option, if you could make it work, would be a good foundation for a good build and could last until he's 5-4" or maybe taller (again, if how they fit my gals is any indication).

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by xnavalav8r

Thanks for all the input. Based on everything I've read here and been able to research on my own, it seems the only options are to stick with his current 24"-wheeled bike, consider a 650c bike, or go custom. While custom would be cool, it's not practical... unless a builder wants to donate a frame for this project (anyone?). 650c is just not worth the hassle and investment... more wheels and tires, especially considering that he could move from the 24" to 700c in another year at the rate he is growing. So I am going to stick with the 24" bike for the time being. He will be right around 5 feet tall if he keeps growing like this so I think an XS 700c frame should do the trick next season.

Thanks again. I always (OK, usually) appreciate the input I get from the members of this forum.

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by thisisatest

regarding the 700c bike for next year, a couple years ago specialized had the allez junior. i checked it closely and it was a dolce 44cm with different paint. and as you found out, you pretty much have to be around 5feet tall for that.

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by mjduct

xnavalav8r wrote:I guess my general gripe is that kids bikes are WAY overbuilt, weigh FAR too much,

drill some holes in it, it could use the lightening... gunsmiths do it to guns all the time, why not bikes?

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by xnavalav8r

I'm not an engineer so I'm not willing to risk my son's health and safety to drillium. If it was my frame, I might consider it. hahaha

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by roca rule

I was just checking Alex website and they have a 24"rim that weights ~ 390
Couple that with some light hubs from bhs and you get a wheel set that is 1300 grams. One question why didn't you go with a 650c frame to begin with?
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

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by Estelja

Velocity also makes the Aerohead rim in 24"

24” (520)
Bead seat diameter: 520
Weight: 374g
ERD = 498


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by xnavalav8r

I used the 325g Alienation AnkleBiter rims. They are a great, lightweight rim and happen to be one of my son's sponsors for BMX.

As for why we didn't go with a 650c bike... at the time I bought this one he was too small for 650c. He had a huge growth spurt. But he is only 8 years old.

The 24" bike still fits him well, it's just that it is a tank. No manufacturer seems to bother with things like butted tubes or carbon fiber on these smaller frames. It seems the size to weight ratio is (somewhat) inversely proportional. A 56cm frame under 800 grams can be readily purchased from a number of manufacturers, but try finding a 40cm frame that weighs less than 1500 grams.

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by fordred

Market just ain't there for such small bikes for manufacturers to take notice.
Just let him ride/train on the heavy bike. Once he switches to the 700c bike in a couple of years, he'll fly. U could be the one drafting him then. :)

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by Super_fast

xnavalav8r wrote:*sigh*

This IS Weight Weenies! Get in the spirit of the forum!

I fully get the spirit of the forum. But letting an 8 year old participate in Mount Washington hill climb? Climbing such a high mountain at the age of 8 is already pushing it. Mount Washington is very steep and it is a freakin race... Why do you think the races for 8 year olds are only 10-20 minutes long?

When you'd want him to still ride a bike when he is 18, just let him have fun now and don't push him.

As long as all kids ride heavy bikes I don't see a problem. Most kids 'crash' quite often, when they are riding a heavy bike they can pick up the bike and continue. It should be about cycling and fun for kids, not about which dad invests most money in their child.

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by stella-azzurra

This is more of a dad's project/goal/fantasy than anything. You'll eventually find out what he want's to do later on in life. Best of luck on the climb.
I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree

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by xnavalav8r

He has already done Mt. Washington once... after being invited by the organisers. This attempt is at his request and I support him completely. Some things in life are about opportunities and not necessarily about the end result. Being a career military officer, I have spent much of my son's life away from him, and sometimes wondered if I might not make it back. So any opportunity to share a memorable experience with him, I LEAP at. Some day he may think cycling is boring and lose interest, but we'll always have the memory of the events we participated in together.

Frankly, I'll never understand the parents who lug their kids all over creation to play ball sports, but think cycling is just something to do in the neighborhood. Why is competing in a ball sport any more fun than in a bike race? I think it's amazing to see my son set goals and accomplish them, or try his hardest even if he comes up short. There are entire leagues of junior cycling events in Europe starting at 5 or 6 years old. The reason North American cycling (in general) sucks so much is that it is not a mainstream sport as it is in Europe. Perhaps if more cyclists helped instill a passion for cycling in kids, rather than set limits and tell others what they can't do, more kids would be interested in cycling. In our neighborhood alone, three of my son's friends have taken up cycling this year and are participating in junior races with him. They're inspired by him... as am I.

Since there are fewer than a handful of Weight Weenies that I actually know and have physically met, I'll take comments about my motivation, and my relationship with my son, with a grain of salt.


by Weenie

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by LouisN

I have an old Colombus SL frame for kids (24" wheels) here and it's a lot lighter than an aluminium one. Maybe consider having a builder make one with extralight steel for your son.
I also saw some 24" old Wolber tubular rims on the Bay. Would make a nice light "special events" wheelset for the kid.
I posted this a few months back, but as a joke: A 24" wheels full carbon fork would take away almost a full 3/4 pound off a kid's bike. Maybe ask berk, or some carbon wizard ???

Louis :)

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