Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Galleries NEW FAQ Contact About Impressum
It is currently Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:59 pm

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:21 am
Posts: 8
Speaking of the hidden features of TIME (albeit a somewhat old-time TIME), I've been waiting for this long-trailed video from Luescher Teknik:

https://youtu.be/P1yERXuaWuQ

Overall quite encouraging I think. Once the Aktiv fork becomes available for production (as opposed to prototype) disc-brake models, I'll be sore tempted.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:02 pm 


Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 6678
Location: Athens, Greece
Some of the reasons we love Time frames:

"totally different construction method [...] completely different to pre-peg and bladder molding"

"neat controlled surface on the inside as well"

"quite a well put together frame"

"I really liked the headset arrangement [...] it takes the load off the steerer"

_________________
My 6536gr TIME Skylon
My 9733gr COLNAGO Master X-light


Last edited by kgt on Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 4770
Interesting cutaway in the video. Not without its voids however.

Here's my experience with a Time RXR UTLEAM that I recently gave a once over...

RXR ULTEAM
Image

The bike had some headset issues... could feel the clunking upon brake application, etc. Definitely needed an adjustment at minimum.

The first issue was removing the headset... very proprietary and very unncecessary in my opinion. Sweat had made it's way down the steertube and into the threads of the proprietary threaded steel sleeve that gets permanently bonded to the steertube. Without the little proprietary tools (a couple small rods), one is left to unlock the headset with a couple of small allen keys which I hate to do as they can mar up the headset cover. Oh well... here's how the sleeve is bonded to the steertube...
Image

Those bearings are proprietary to Time as well and a pretty penny to replace... they needed it...
Image

When ordering the new bearings, I asked the distributor about the fork and the threaded sleeve, as I saw it completely unnecessary in light of today's technology. Plus, because the placement of the threaded sleeve is very specific to the headtube length, you have to get the specific fork for that specific frame size if it needs replacing. The distributor was basically onboard with my same level of unimpressedness. Oh well... got the new bearing at least.

The stem bolts also had some corrosion due to sweat, and they too are very proprietary and unlike normal threaded bolts. They are two piece affairs, with the female end knurled so that it bites into the carbon stem to prevent it from rotating. This particular stem had a bit of extra material preventing the female part from fully seating and allowing it to spin annoyingly making it impossible to get the proper torque applied. After much ado, I removed the extra material on the stem and at least got to to seat well enough to get enough torque applied...
This is the bulbous stem, all cleaned up and reinstalled... the stem bolts don't thread into the stem itself like every other stem I know of, but threads into a female knurled bolt on the other side, which had become corroded...
Image

Suffice to say, I'm not a fan of either the headset or the stem. Current systems are much simpler, lighter (no steel threaded sleeve bonded to the steertube), and less finicky to work on.

As for "neat, controlled surface on the inside", well... here's a couple shots of the inside of the headtube. You be the judge....
Image

Image

Image


Another thing I always check out on frames is the clearances, cable routings, etc... all these things add up to a bike that may not only be a joy to ride, but also to maintain and work on. After working with the new 9100 stuff on several bikes, some clearance in front of the rear tire and the downtube/BB area is a welcome thing when removing rear wheels. Now, this particular TIME was made well before Shimano 9100 was introduced, but I suspect it would not be a most favorable candidate to put a 9100 group on if you wanted to. Blame Shimano for that as their new 9100 stuff leaves something to be desired for ease of rear wheel removal.... and on this TIME there's not a lot of leeway up front of the rear tire...

You can see some daylight between the tire and the cutaway in the downtube, but not a whole lot...
Image

So, all back together lubed up and adjusted. I did take the bike out for a test ride to make sure everything was fine etc. It's a light bike for its time for sure. But it comes at a price... I can say I haven't ridden anything that felt so noodly for a very long time. But the owner likes it, and that's what counts.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:21 am
Posts: 8
Thanks for that Calnago (despite the light drizzle on our parade). :D

I usually learn something of value from your detailed posts, and this was no exception.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 4770
It was just a light drizzle. The same guy has got a brand new TIME he wants me to build up for him. So, if I do that I'll compare the new with the old. But I still don't like that proprietary headset system one bit. And maybe the new ones aren't so much of a noodle that this one is.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:38 pm
Posts: 106
Great post calnago. Lovely bike not without its flaws.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

_________________
David
[b]'10 CANNONDALE CAAD10


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 6678
Location: Athens, Greece
@ Calnago
TIME's headset system is one of the most sophisticated and safe since it puts zero stress on the steerer as Raoul Luescher says. It also allows you to replace stems, remove or add spacers etc. while the headset and fork remain fixed. No need to adjust angles, screw headset cups etc. from the beginning. You may not like it but that's not TIME's problem. They now exactly what they do and they do it for a reason.

The RXR you presented had obviously some issues but nobody know how it was used. The images from the headtube... Do you think this is normal? Do you think TIME frames are made like that? No, they are not.

Anyway TIME handmade RTM frames have arguably a quality of construction you cannot find elsewhere. See Hambini's recent video. It confirms that as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zryhuHkbb-o

_________________
My 6536gr TIME Skylon
My 9733gr COLNAGO Master X-light


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 4770
@Kgt... the design of the headset in this frame is a proprietary pain in the ass. But maybe it is necessary for their steertube due to its construction, which is quite soft and "crushable". This is very evident when you attach the stem. The top cap (an alloy sleeve which extends the length of the stem stack height) just slides in the steertube easily and is held in place solely by the crushing force when you tighten the stem, and it doesn't take much tightening to feel that effect. Most steertubes these days are much less prone to compress like that, and some don't even require any reinforcement these days.
So, perhaps the steel threaded collar glued to the steertube is necessary for this steertube design, due to it's crushable characteristic. It works, that's about all the good I can say for it.

Yes, you can remove spacers etc without undoing the headset, but unless you want to leave a bunch of extra steertube on top, I would imagine you'd want to remove the fork and cut it to the appropriate length. Then you're faced with the two rods or allan keys and tediously unscrewing the headset a half turn at a time till it disengages from the threads.

The whole thing seems kind of silly and I suspect the reason they used it here (are they still doing it?) is because that's how they started doing it with their forks, and it works best for "their" forks. Good for them. Compared to current designs, I find it lacking in simplicity. Simplicity is good.

I also don't know why you say the RXR I pictured "obviously had some 'issues' and no one knows how it was used". It just needed some maintenance, that's all. No "issues". A loose or worn headset. The bearings have a kind of waxy substance around them that degrades over time which could have contributed to the looseness I suppose. In fact, TIME even says it's normal for the headset to feel "tight" for a while when new bearings are used. And I know how the frame was used... it was simply ridden as a bicycle is intended to be ridden. Nothing more, nothing less. I know the owner. There's no "issues" with the bike... it's working as designed. I just presented it here because the design is so unique compared to other manufacturers that I thought it was worth showing for general interest sake.

When you comment on the images I presented, and ask if I think that is normal, and whether TIME frames are made like that, and then say "No, they are not", well... I don't really know how to respond. Except to say this is a legit TIME frame, and this is how it was made. It's never been modified or crashed or repaired. So, I guess for this particular frame it is in fact, "normal". I'm not suggesting it isn't structurally sound or anything. After all, it hasn't broken thus far. But describing it as a "neat, controlled surface on the inside", might be a bit of stretch judging by the inside of the headtube, at least for this frame. Perhaps the newer models are different.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:22 am
Posts: 320
As much as I love TIME bikes, I definitely developed a Love/Hate relationship with the RXR Ulteam.

Loved it for its good looks and smooth ride.
Hated it for its lack of torsional stiffness and handling.

Front end was a complete mess and noodly AF*

Brought the bike in to two shops that dealt with TIME and everyone who test rode it were appalled by the lack of stiffness up front.

Was really glad when I got rid of it for the newer SCYLON which was a lot better but still not quite up to mark compared to Cipollinis or Pinarellos.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:57 pm
Posts: 304
maverick_1 wrote:
RXR Ulteam and the ZXRS..
Bike on the right belongs to fellow weightweenie, jimaizumi

Image


Lots of sweetbikes here, but what caught my eyes are those two. What a timeless design that is! They look more "modern" than Time's current aero frame. I'd definitely keep it if it was mine.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:20 pm
Posts: 714
Location: Tokyo
@ak47,
Yes, will be keeping the ZXRS for sure!
The front end stiffness is an improvement over the RXR, though outright BB stiffness is a little lacking comparing to the likes of C60 and Cipo. Nonetheless I’m enjoying the overall ride quality on the ZXRS.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 6678
Location: Athens, Greece
@ Calnago
I respect that your arguments are based on experience and knowledge. However it is clear that TIME engineers designed their headset the way the did for another reason than the one you think they did. It is not because the steerer tube is 'crushable'. If it was 'crushable' the threaded collar would detach (even if glued) after a few rides or it would delaminate the steerer tube or the fork itself would fail. Nothing of it happens. It is softer (due to vectran and kevlar) by design and in order to absorb vibrations. And it does.
So, they designed it like that for the reason Luescher explains and their design is more advanced and safe from an engineering point of view. It may be harder for you to service it but this is something that TIME does not want you to do anyway.

_________________
My 6536gr TIME Skylon
My 9733gr COLNAGO Master X-light


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:07 pm
Posts: 87
i really enjoy the time headset system very much, especially the fact that they use that aluminum sleeve that gets pushed into the fork steertube. looks neat too.
it gives a nice pressure from inside when tightening the stem. you just know when the bolts are tight. don´t know how to describe it better...but on my other bikes it feels like you don´t really know when it´s tight enough because you can just tighten the bolts more and more, because all carbon tubes are a bit compressable in my experience. if that makes sense...


Top
   
 Post subject: Le club Time
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 4770
kgt wrote:
...
So, they designed it like that for the reason Luescher explains and their design is more advanced and safe from an engineering point of view. It may be harder for you to service it but this is something that TIME does not want you to do anyway.

All Luescher says is he likes it because it “takes some of the compressive load off the steerer”, which is in essence exactly what I’ve said it does as well. There’s nothing inconsistent with his reasoning and mine in this case. At the stem the alloy top cap insert prevents the steertube from being crushed and at the top bearing that glued on threaded sleeve prevents the crushing effect on the steertube in that area as well. And it makes sense to have this added support in those areas when you consider the relative softness of the steertube. I do not think it is more “advanced and safe” from an engineering point of view when compared to other steertubes of different construction. But I do see that it is a good, and probably necessary, design for a steertube of this type of construction. Neither better or worse (aside from the added complexity), just different.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 6678
Location: Athens, Greece
IMO the fact that it “takes some of the compressive load off the steerer” makes it better than the traditional headset systems all other manufacturers follow.

Luescher thinks this is good engineering:
"I quite like the system that @timecycling use for the headset. It avoids a point load on the steerer by distributing the loads over a large area. " (from his fb page. You can see many issues with what you call hassle free headsets-fork steerers in his fb page btw).

For you it is neither positive not negative. Just different.

Allow me to agree with Luescher and not with you.

_________________
My 6536gr TIME Skylon
My 9733gr COLNAGO Master X-light


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Le club Time
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:39 pm 


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Time for a new-look Time?

in Road

hamd

10

1691

Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:40 pm

td100 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Time to build

in Road

Lukester

5

1150

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:38 pm

Lukester View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Attachment(s) My Time Skylon

[ Go to page: 13 4 5 6 7 ]

in Introduce Yourself / Gallery - Please use metric weights.

kgt

96

12440

Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:53 pm

kgt View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Time Quick Set cup

in Wanted

havana

0

64

Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:15 pm

havana View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. TIME VXRS

in Road

Bely

8

1000

Fri May 26, 2017 5:33 pm

claus View the latest post


All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited