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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:00 pm 
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I have both an iPhone & an 800.
Let's compare
    Battery life -Garmin by a country mile
    Durability - Garmin again by a country mile
    Map Quality - Garmin yet again
    Weight - iPhone
    Clarity of display - iPhone
    Ability to make calls - iPhone
    integration with ANT+ sensors - Garmin once more
    Data costs - Garmin

Which device is more likely to survive use on a bike? The iPhone isn't waterproof, nor shock resistant and has a battery life that is laughable when using GPS, not to mention the data usage! Recently I crashed and sustained serious injuries. My Garmin was thrown across the road but aside from a tiny mark on the casing is perfect. My iPhone wouldnt have taken that trip well at all. If the impact didn't kill it, the soaking would have.

Looks pretty much a slam-dunk for Garmin.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:10 pm 
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Sure but you can have an iPhone running strava a cat eye double wireless for speed and cadence and a watch with heart rate monitor and still have enough cash left over to buy two sets of continental Gp4000S with tubes.

If I get lost I can use the iPhone to get me home and make a call.... :thumbup:

I certainly wouldn't call that a slam dunk for the garmin :noidea:


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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:10 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:14 pm 
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Your rides must be pretty damn short and very local if you rely upon any smartphone to run your GPS + data for your rides.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:17 pm 
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brettmess24 wrote:
Sure but you can have an iPhone running strava a cat eye double wireless for speed and cadence and a watch with heart rate monitor and still have enough cash left over to buy two sets of continental Gp4000S with tubes.

If I get lost I can use the iPhone to get me home and make a call.... :thumbup:

I certainly wouldn't call that a slam dunk for the garmin :noidea:

So you still have to buy extra stuff, such as the HRM & Cateye? £100 for the Cateye Double Wireless plus £100 for a HRM watch. Better to get a Garmin 200 or 500 wouldn't you think?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:18 pm 
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prendrefeu wrote:
Your rides must be pretty damn short and very local if you rely upon any smartphone to run your GPS + data for your rides.

My thoughts exactly!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:19 pm 
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prendrefeu wrote:
Your rides must be pretty damn short and very local if you rely upon any smartphone to run your GPS + data for your rides.


Short ride 20mi long ride 50 miles......is that short :noidea:

I already own the phone but this would be the breakdown:
Amazon.com
Cat eye double $85
Two sets GP4000s $170
4 tubes $28
Puma heart rate monitor watch w/monitor $60
All with free two day shipping.

iPhone with contract $250 unlimited data, my iPhone holds charge for at least a 50 mile ride with 65% charge left....

I would love to have a Garmin but it doesn't seem worth the price for what you get....

Total cost $593 and I use the phone everyday along with the watch on runs etc....


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:31 pm 
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brettmess24 wrote:
prendrefeu wrote:
Your rides must be pretty damn short and very local if you rely upon any smartphone to run your GPS + data for your rides.


Short ride 20mi long ride 50 miles......is that short :noidea:

20 miles is my daily commute, 50 miles is a short to medium Sunday. Your battery is likely to be almost finished unless you shut all functions down bar the GPS and you're averaging 20mph plus. What happens when you do a proper ride like a century? Then you're stuffed after barely two thirds distance at a brisk pace.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Yes 20mph avg and I only run strava in my jersey pocket, not any other programs besides the phone.

So for my riding I don't need the extra battery life and don't have a need to see instant gps.

If and when riding a century do you need gps?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:50 pm 
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brettmess24 wrote:
Yes 20mph avg and I only run strava in my jersey pocket, not any other programs besides the phone.

So for my riding I don't need the extra battery life and don't have a need to see instant gps.

If and when riding a century do you need gps?

I ride in Italy a lot. I download a ride from any number of sites which enables me to get the most out of a long weekend's riding. I can also record the actual ride and incorporate it into future rides. My iPhone cannot do this even if it had the battery power. Plus your speed, cadence & heart rate aren't recorded, so all you have is a record of where you went & roughly how fast you were going. You might just as well dispense with the Cateye, HRM & just take the phone.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:52 pm 
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brettmess24 wrote:

Short ride 20mi long ride 50 miles......is that short :noidea:

I already own the phone but this would be the breakdown:
Amazon.com
Cat eye double $85
Two sets GP4000s $170
4 tubes $28
Puma heart rate monitor watch w/monitor $60

iPhone with contract $250 unlimited data, my iPhone holds charge for at least a 50 mile ride with 65% charge left....

Total cost $593 and I use the phone everyday along with the watch on runs etc....


Why are you looking at the 800? I'd go with the 500 (or the 510 now).

Your overall question: Garmin vs iPhone (plus a myriad of other devices) is missing what I think are several important use cases.

First off, the Garmin's GPS radio is much more accurate and the battery life issue is an important one (as a result). I always bring my iPhone 5, but the GPS mode eats battery and out in the middle of a remote mountain road I may get cell coverage and having a phone that works if something bad happens is fairly important to me. Even on shortish "fun" rides on a bike without the Garmin, a 30 mile two hour "cruise" will sap the battery. Even on the 5 with push turned off.

Secondly, for my use, I train 6-7 days a week and I'd hate to have to spend time everyday fiddling with multiple devices to correlate training data. I can use Garmin Connect and Strava quickly: plug it in, upload the data, bam! HR, power, cadence, GPS, etc. No need to muck about.

Third, and this is a much more practical concern: I can see all my data real time. True, the 500 doesn't have map data, but I can look at vertical feet, distance, cadence, HR, power, at a glance. I can set up a few screens to fly through: when climbing I can see ascension speed, when on the trainer I can ignore distance and focus on HR, time, etc. This is huge. I don't want to have to try and fiddle with three different displays, that's just piss poor UX and I think it would adversely affect my training (who wants to be trying to push into Zone 5 and worrying about flipping between two displays?).

If you are looking for Map data and you're hellbent on getting hung up on retail prices, I don't see why you aren't looking at the 810 which can be had for the same price with the HRM and speed/cadence sensor.

Oh, extra bonus: less wires and junk about your person. What do you want to do, have mounts for your HRM, Cateye, and a funky case/mount for your iPhone on your handlebars? Throw in a few mirrors and some clip on aero-bars while you're at it...

(Secret confession: I do listen to music/audiobooks/podcasts on some solo training rides and that plus GPS will kill my phone in no time.)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Why would I get rid of the hrm and cat eye? Isn't this what I should be focused on? Keeping my cadence in the sweetspot as well as my heart rate zones....

The mapping sounds cool but I don't get to ride in Italy etc.

My rides consist of getting faster and training/fitness so my riding sounds very different from yours.

The strava stuff is just cool and makes me want to ride to beat my last ride.

I guess i am not a fit for the Garmin, thanks for the convo :beerchug:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:06 pm 
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Location: Denver
A further addendum: before I acquired an Edge 500, I was using MapMyRide, a wireless Cateye, and a Polar HRM. It was rubbish. I wasn't tracking data that was that useful and my training was a PITA. Acquiring a Garmin greatly streamlined the acquisition of useful data. Convenience, form factor, durability, and yes, even aesthetic, make the other solution seem antiquated and overly complicated. I've been using a Garmin since last June and I would never go back (plus Connect and Strava are far superior to MapMyRide).

Garmin on the bars, iPhone in the jersey where it's used as a phone and not for mapping. It's just so much simpler and the data is so much more rich. Ultimately it just sounds like you don't want to spend the money and that's fine. I think you're arguments are rather specious and I'm merely pointing out that the utility of a Garmin far outweighs the one time cost.

Again, I don't know why you are bent on comparing the older and more expensive 800 to everything else. Since you have an iPhone and you can always use that for route finding, you don't need the 800 at all.

I would point out that the 800 and 810 store maps locally, something your iPhone won't do without buying TomTom for $50 plus the yearly subscription. I don't know if you've figured that into your calculation. Yes the iPhone will still log GPS data (as that's nearly always available) but you won't have map data for route finding unless you can get on the data network... something that I can't always do in the middle of nowhere.

Bottom line: you've made a strawman because you don't like the Garmin. That's foolish, but again, it's your money and your time and ultimately, your choice.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:31 pm 
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I don't know why you are so defensive and need to use the words foolish etc... :roll:

You made some valid points about mapping but I simply don't see the need.(for me)

Also you seem to be confusing me quoting the 800... I never even mentioned a model number...

I appreciate your experiences but also don't see how anyone would ever say ditch the speed,cadence and HRM. :?

I also believe price should be a consideration.

So my bottom line is that for you the Garmin is great :beerchug:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:04 pm 
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brettmess24 wrote:
I don't know why you are so defensive and need to use the words foolish etc... :roll:

You made some valid points about mapping but I simply don't see the need.(for me)

Also you seem to be confusing me quoting the 800... I never even mentioned a model number...

I appreciate your experiences but also don't see how anyone would ever say ditch the speed,cadence and HRM. :?

I also believe price should be a consideration.

So my bottom line is that for you the Garmin is great :beerchug:


The 800 is overkill for many people. The 500 is ideal for most in that it captures all the relevant data on one unit allowing you to upload it to whatever platform you desire. This allows you to see the progression of your training over weeks and months. Also it is all very well saying that you can see what your cadence or HR are at any time, but are you going to spend your entire ride looking down at the tiny screen of a Cateye instead of enjoying the ride and looking where you're going? By logging the data the Garmin allows you to see how long you stayed in the desired training zone for. It can alert you when you drop out of the desired cadence or HR zone or when you are going too hard. How often have you been out on the bike feeling like you're glued to the road, despite burying yourself? With the data recorded you can look back and very often see the onset of it days earlier. It is a tool that can help a rider understand how their body reacts to infection, overtraining or other stresses.

That said, there is something really liberating about riding without any of this, phone included. After all that's how it used to be for many of us not that long ago.

Image

No computer, no HRM, not even a watch!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:24 pm 
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ultimobici wrote:
I have both an iPhone & an 800.
Let's compare
    Battery life -Garmin by a country mile
    Durability - Garmin again by a country mile
    Map Quality - Garmin yet again
    Weight - iPhone
    Clarity of display - iPhone
    Ability to make calls - iPhone
    integration with ANT+ sensors - Garmin once more
    Data costs - Garmin

Looks pretty much a slam-dunk for Garmin.


Putting aside battery and durability for the moment, Garmin's maps are available for smartphones, along with others like Google and TomTom. Many smartphones now have Bluetooth 4.0 for which HR, Speed, Cadence and even Power Meters are available.

The Battery life and durability become issues when you're talking about mounting the device on the handlebars. If you're storing the device in you pocket for headless recording, or using something like the new Wahoo Reflect it's battery life improves drastically.

Data costs are no issue. There are apps that can pre-load map data. The GPS receiver will work with the other radios off.

Given most people carry a phone when they ride I do wonder how much longer Garmin can continue milking these single use devices with their current UX.


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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:24 pm 


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