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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:46 pm 
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I wouldn't stress out so much about KOM's and just ride your bike.
Having said that, we had a few segments that went right through the center of a pedestrian college campus. Obviously you don't want idiots sprinting it out there in the middle of the day.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:10 pm 
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I think this is a good compromise. On descending segments, for example, I just want to see how I'm descending versus others, not trying to get any "KOMs".

Of course some sort of voting system would be better for flags than the present system, but that's a separate issue.

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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:10 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:25 am 
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I use to wonder why people raced? I wondered why they kept track of their times and compared them to their present times. Is it to gauge if they are getting better? I wondered why the last lap of a race looked more like a Rugby match, than a bike race. I wondered why people fight their butt off to get on those 3 little steps and receive their awards and look out among all of their bretheren, that they just BEAT! You raise your arms in triumph as the trophy is handed to you.

Why? Because we like to win! Strava as well as CAT racers and pro's like to win! There are Pro's on Strava, There are CAT racers on Strava, There are weekend riders on Strava, And Guy's that discovered that they have talent later in their lives who are on Strava. We all like to win! Right!

Some non racers can beat Pro's. Some Cat racers can beat pro's. And some people that you can only see on Strava, that can put a whooping on all comers. Just natural talent.

Some segments on Strava are short, yes. But most of them are long. I have KOM's that are 5 1/2 hours long, i have Koms that are 20 seconds long. I have sprint KOM's and climbing KOM's. As do most of the people reading this.

The good thing about Strava is when you get a KOM, you have to defend it! If someone takes it, you have to train even harder to take it back! In a race you go home with the trophy, and that's it. Next race, maybe another trophy. But a KOM always gets challenged!

You race for trophys. We ride for KOM's, we train just as hard. We put our time and sweat in. JUST LIKE YOU! (racers) .

The pro's on Strava go after KOM's, because to them it is another trophy! A training aid that is constantly evolving!

Now when someone blatently Flaggs a Kom for no other reason than Being a butt. Do you see why it causes people to become upset? I have lost so many KOM's to this , people just being A$$holes that I get pissed!

We earned them, we felt pain, we sweated, we went without, to get to the top of the leaderboards, just as racers want to get to the top of the podium.

How would most people feel, if after a race. The results were flagged. And now the race never existed? Your trophy is gone, all of your training that you put in for that race was for naught, WOULD YOU BE PISSED?

And now think of this. Your race was flagged by somebody who didn't like the way that you said hello to them in the parking lot.

Strava has to do something about the one person flagging!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:20 am 
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Firstly I think you need to calm down and remember Image
If people are flagging your rides or driving them in their cars take it as a compliment. Who cares if the interbutts doesn't know you're the fastest bikeler around.

Secondly is this really why you ride? To stand atop stravas? I have a strava, I like it, it's fun to see what your friends are up to and to silently brag about big days or fast rides but it's most certainly not why I ride. If strava shut down I'd keep on riding 400 miles a week and keep on loving it! Do it for the feels and let the satisfaction come from within.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:20 am 
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Hbrown wrote:
...
The cheaters are always there! Me personally, I can't understand cheating on Strava, Because you are only cheating yourself! Why?
...

What is cheating on Strava? How can you cheat - are there rules that users agreed to?

We typically just download the Garmin. From races with a pack, to rides with a group, to solo, to wind aided, to motor pacing, to cruising, and also forgetting to turn it off on a car ride.

If you want fair - race.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:11 am 
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Hbrown wrote:
And some people that you can only see on Strava, that can put a whooping on all comers.

And if you don't race you know this how? Simply, you don't.

There is more to a racer than their w/kg or if they are top of any given local segment. It's why the Tour isn't decided by Vo2 max test shootout.

I appreciate (and use) Strava. The longitudinal data it provides me is terrific. I will reject however any comparison drawn between someone who owns a ton of KOMs and someone who races. Regardless of how far ahead of local pros they may be on a segment.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:44 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Zoro wrote:
How can you cheat - are there rules that users agreed to?


http://www.digitalepo.com/ for one :thumbup:

Only way to truely know who is better is within a race. Strava segments are open to too many variables to be a true comparison - such as wind, temps, whether ridden solo or drafting others...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:12 am 
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@ Dalai

Agreed. Especially wind and drafting. On brutally windy days on our mostly-flat terrain around here, it is known KOM-hunting season. Check the wind speed/direction, and design a route accordingly. That's pretty much the only way to do it for 95% of segments around here. The other 5% are lightly traveled or poorly plotted.

Also, fast group rides often sweep up the KOMs week after week just about. It is interesting to use the leader board times to see previous iterations of whichever ride goes out that way - to see how fast/hard the ride was that particular day or who was riding, for instance. For segments on a race course, races are easily compared across years or even category if you look closely enough [i.e. the cat 3 races will be longer than the cat 5 and start at different time of day].

In the end - you can use segments and leader boards in all different kinds of ways, but you cannot use them to put any kind of definitive measure to the e-wang.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:33 pm 
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Remember this is about Strava single person Flagging. Not whether Strava users can race or not. But I would be careful, sometimes you get, what you ask for.

I made the reference to racing because in the end you get a trophy. On Strava you get Kom's. Thats all. Nothing about wanting or not wanting to race.

I ride mostly alone. But that doesn't meen that I ride alone all of the time. I ride with team members and Cat racers sometimes for training, and I usually allways take the sprints. We have fun! I know a lot of racers, And I look forward to riding with my Buds.

I also like to ride alone with my Garmin, and upload the rides when I get home. I look over ther rides and see segments pop up. I check the times, make a note of them and the next time i ride that area , I go after the KOM. Check the times. If I get it COOL, I move on to the next, if not, I will ride that route again, compare times, work harder, till I can do the best time that I can get. If it KOM's great, if not, I at least hope that I am on the first page of the leaderboard. I realize that there are hundreds of people better than me, but wanting that crown, makes you work to get it. And guess what. I AM ON MY BIKE, riding, sweating, pedaling to exhaustion, not just going out after the KOM, but incorparating it into my ride.

I was on another forum and actually read that one guy say's that he flaggs KOM's as soon as he see's that they were done on a MUP! Why? I am on some MUPs at 4 am, How many other people do you think are out there at that time? Should some one who has never rode over a kom'ed route be able to flagg it? And again, should someone who averages 11mph, be able to flagg someone who averages 20mph+?

You and your group do a decsent at 50mph carving the heck out of it. Laughing joking screaming and having fun, in control, relaxed, and just having a good time. Now some one else comes down that same decsent, doing only 10mph sitting straight up and shaking, Big difference in skill levels, right. Should they be allowed to flagg that decsent?

Single person flagging needs to be stopped!!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:54 pm 
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Tinea Pedis wrote:
Hbrown wrote:
And some people that you can only see on Strava, that can put a whooping on all comers.

And if you don't race you know this how? Simply, you don't.

There is more to a racer than their w/kg or if they are top of any given local segment. It's why the Tour isn't decided by Vo2 max test shootout.

I appreciate (and use) Strava. The longitudinal data it provides me is terrific. I will reject however any comparison drawn between someone who owns a ton of KOMs and someone who races. Regardless of how far ahead of local pros they may be on a segment.


Winner winner, chicken dinner.

Strava doesn't show environmental contributors. There are segments around me that will never be topped now because the surfaces have been chip-sealed. How about wind direction? Living right on the Columbia River, we get some serious winds. Certain segments are better certain parts of the day and year. I've got a buddy who has gone crazy with Strava and seems to be on a mission to own every KOM around, in whatever fashion he can, but hasn't performed so well in races this year.

Anywho, back to flagging. I've flagged some KOMs that I've lost. Every one of them was obviously done in a car though (average speed for the ride over 50mph, max of 80+, etc). And lots of times the people edit their own activities before it's even an issue.

The best solution? Don't take the internet so seriously. If I'm not the fastest internet racer in my city, I can live with that.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:12 pm 
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It's just as easy to flag a flag. Just open a ticket and have them review it. If it's that important to you, spend 3 seconds to submit a ticket. I do this all the time for 20 second segments with avg gradient of 34%. They get fixed 100% of the time.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am
Posts: 240
Dalai wrote:
Zoro wrote:
How can you cheat - are there rules that users agreed to?


http://www.digitalepo.com/ for one :thumbup:

Only way to truely know who is better is within a race. Strava segments are open to too many variables to be a true comparison - such as wind, temps, whether ridden solo or drafting others...

I still don't think that is cheating. Maybe its the definition of cheating we need clarification on. I'd start with a definition that says cheating is breaking an agreement. The dictionary says it is to "deceive or mislead somebody, especially for personal advantage". I am missing the personal advantage part in Strava. Maybe seeing that KOM is enough. Something is posted without a claim about it. Did I gloss over the terms and conditions when signing up that says I won't do something? I have not read enough that says if I forget to turn the Garmin off driving up the hill and upload it - that is cheating. Or if it is done on purpose. I have motor paced my kid when he commented he likely got some Strava KOMs from that. Of course - he didn't, which just confirmed few segments are believable.
I tend to think some of the longer climbs, are, but even then, racing is how to tell.

And, while I have not done it, I kind of think tweeking folks with something like digital EPO is funny. Funny because Strava should not be taken seriously.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:04 pm 
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Hbrown, did u really just write all thought about strava? and if so, were u serious? im trying to figure this out.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:28 pm 
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Well this post was about Strava now allowing us to see the leaderboards on flagged segments. Which is A good first step. just as I said before you don't regain your KOM, but you can see your times.

My problem was that some segments should have not have been flagged in the first place. The flagging option on Strava has gotten out of hand. It can be done at any time for any reason. The only good thing is that you actually have to ride over that segment to be able to flag it. So it can't be flagged by some internet A%%, who has no life, no goals or no asperations in life, and still probably lives at home with his mom.

Anything to help us run for our bikes is a good thing, Strava does that, we still have our inner drive to ride , but it is nice to see your ride mapped, heart rate shown , times and other information shown. The KOM is just something more for the individuals that want to go for them. Something to satisfy human competivness!

People that flag rides basicly are putting their values and skills (or lack of) ahead of yours. We all have choices, some of us want to see our names at the top of the leaderboards, we love knowing that we are the fastest and strongest over a given section of this world. We like to collect KOM's as some people collect records or items.

Some are Pro riders, some are not, that is what is so great about Strava, you can take a Kom, and it might have been set by a stock boy or a Pro. Or a stock boy who is a Pro, But taking it is a personal goal that you have set out to do. "You have set out to do!" That is what is being missed here! You and I chose to want to ride for KOM's. We know our capabilities, not others, we don't ride stupid around joggers and other riders, most of the leaders rides are done very early.

The top kom on Strava, These are the guy's that have the most KOM's and QOM's. the KOM is over 900, The QOM has 1400 QOM's. Most likely they are Pro's. But being Strava it can be anybody!

Let people have their electronic goals, let people set records, stop comparing others skill levals to yours. Basically stop taking away FUN!

One persons opinion can ruin hundreds of others.

Last word I write on ths subject. Stop allowing single person FLAG's!


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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:28 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:37 pm 
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I don't know what's worse, the people who actually bother to flag rides on a bit of fun website, or people who believe the bit of fun website is a matter of life or death...

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