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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
But an aero frame would make a difference, albeit a small one, irrespective of training. The question is if it's worth the cost and other tradeoffs (i.e. ride, weight), which is up to the individual to answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:34 am 
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Road Bike Action headed to a wind tunnel in their latest issue (April) - it's a decent read. Biggest surprise? Aero frames loose almost all their advantage vs. "non-aero" in their tests when a rider was added.

And riding "two up" makes both riders slower.

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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:34 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:19 am 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
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Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
I'd like to see the details of the wind tunnel test which shows riding two up makes both riders slower. Is that in comparison to riding by themselves? If so, that's a surprising result to me. On the other hand, if the claim is that riding two up is slower than one behind the other, that would be easier to believe.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:53 am 
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Last edited by Causidicus on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:51 pm
Posts: 160
bm0p700f wrote:
Having read this topic it has got a little lively at times. Today I managed 118.5 miles @ 18.6mph average (solo). I am using an early 90's steel sannino frame - not aero but I do have some 50mm deep carbon wheels on it (it is the raace bike). If I want to go faster I need to continue training and improve the power output I can sustain. Getting a modern aero frame that is stiffer is not going to make a bigger difference than more training.

Which is as trite and pointless as telling someone to take a sh!t before a ride instead of worrying about a frame that's 200g lighter than another...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:26 am 
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Last edited by Causidicus on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:42 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:51 pm
Posts: 160
You're looking to bring a post, from another thread, in to here?

Why not reply in that thread? Unless you're intent on trolling...a poor one at that.

Ignoring the fact also that the Brim Brothers power meter has been promised for years and they are still sending out assurances that "it's coming" to prevent consumers looking elsewhere (read: ticks all the boxes for 'vapourware').


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:21 am 
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Last edited by Causidicus on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:32 am 
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Posts: 160
Pointless: replying to another post in an another thread.

My post was otherwise to temper the users who (and you only have to go back a few pages) state that they are going to 'hold out for it'.

Hell, the whole thread is littered with people who have held out for Brim Brothers. There's nothing trite or pointless on calling out a company making plays to tie up consumer money - when they could be on something else and enoying the benefits of riding with power.


Now, back to aero vs light wheels. You got any further issues, PM or (at risk of sounding trite) at least reply to me in the relevant thread.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:33 am 
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Last edited by Causidicus on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:51 pm
Posts: 160
Coming from the man who gives replies like this...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=123633&p=1053624#p1053624

Keep up the good work and keeping those double standards high.


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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:33 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Posts: 8358
Location: Geelong
Enough.

Back on topic.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:07 am 
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Last edited by Causidicus on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 3:40 am
Posts: 491
Location: Triange, NC
HammerTime2 wrote:
I'd like to see the details of the wind tunnel test which shows riding two up makes both riders slower. Is that in comparison to riding by themselves? If so, that's a surprising result to me. On the other hand, if the claim is that riding two up is slower than one behind the other, that would be easier to believe.


Two cars running side by side are slightly slower than a single car, assuming the same output power. The dynamics of air flow creates a lower pressure between the cars which works increase the drag slightly. Probably the same principle with two bikes, just less of an effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:28 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Aero vs light wheels
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:56 am
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NealH wrote:
HammerTime2 wrote:
I'd like to see the details of the wind tunnel test which shows riding two up makes both riders slower. Is that in comparison to riding by themselves? If so, that's a surprising result to me. On the other hand, if the claim is that riding two up is slower than one behind the other, that would be easier to believe.


Two cars running side by side are slightly slower than a single car, assuming the same output power. The dynamics of air flow creates a lower pressure between the cars which works increase the drag slightly. Probably the same principle with two bikes, just less of an effect.


Yes, that was essentially the gist of it. Note this was observed by the good folks at Alphamantis who do their aero testing on a track.

From p.64 of the April issue of Road Bike Action:

"For the drafting test, Dr. Edwards remained in his regular road position, hands on hoods, and was joined on the track by Nate Koch, a top U.S. pro track racer. Riding at a constant velocity just behind Koch, Dr. Edwards recorded an average CdA of 0.200. This was a CdA of 0.095 lower than riding alone, resulting in a savings of 95 watts when riding at 30 mph. Next, Dr. Edwards and Koch rode side by side, which yielded some surprising results. Dr. Edwards recorded an average CdA of 0.324, or 0.029 higher than riding alone.

“Side-by-side riding doesn’t have the cyclists share any of the low-pressure region behind each rider,” explains Froncioni. “Each individual has his own low-pressure zone pulling him backwards. In addition, the flow of air is forced around a wider frontal area, which leads to an even bigger low-pressure zone behind them.”

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