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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:34 am
Posts: 55
According to 3M it's no more: "3M Fast Tack Adhesive 5 oz tube HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED BY 3M 11/17/2015"

Having started with this at the Trexlertown Velodrome & using it ever since both on road & track that era appears to have come to an end.

There's Vittoria & Continental but has anyone found another 3M alternative?

Their 08008 & 08001 weatherstrip adhesives seem like viable alternatives. Has anyone tried these?

Thanks in advance.


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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:35 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4780
Location: Canada
No great loss. It was fast, but not good for tubulars. The Vittoria Mastik 1 is still the best.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 1036
Fast Tack has been out of favor for quite a while. It was reformulated three times, possibly more, and plays havoc with a good glue job and also with adhesives used elsewhere in tubular construction.

Mastik One is the go-to adhesive for almost all world-cup track teams and for most pro road teams. A few people use Panasonic which has some advantages and disadvantages. Conti is sometimes used by sponsored teams but even then the mechanics are known to buy Mastik One from petty cash accounts or their own funds and us it when nobody's looking. I used Fast Tack once upon a time for a while, but no longer. And your tires aren't really a place to experiment with odd adhesives. We've tried a number of products including neoprene suit cement, Barge, various 3M adhesives, and so on, but we didn't find anything that worked half as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:34 am
Posts: 55
Thank you 11.4. That is the sort of info I was looking for.

I have written 3M regarding what if anything they make is a workalike replacement for the discontinued 8031. I'll put their response here when/if they provide one.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:00 am
Posts: 24
I have used this 3M product with great success. 3M 08008 Black Super

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 574
Location: Pa USA
^Really? Weatherstrip adhesive. Good lord...

Hope you never have to ride a sudden flat.

I grew up with FastTack, used it for 20 yrs, but for the last 8 or so have been on Mastik. Can't say that its better, per se, but now that you can get cans thru Amazon, it doesn't make sense not to.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:34 am
Posts: 55
Thank you jmagoulas. The 08008 & 08001 weatherstrip adhesives were two of the 3M products I had considered as a replacement for the 8031.

I have a message pending with 3M regarding their replacement recommendation for the discontinued 08031.

Given that weatherstrip adhesive bonds rubber to metal the notion of using it with tubulars isn't that far off the dial.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:55 am 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 1036
If 3M makes a recommendation at all, it will be with caveats and will solely be for the approved use of Fast Tack, which is to glue fabric roof covers on vehicles. After that you're on your own.

Seriously. People think that because an adhesive appears to be strong that it makes a good tubular adhesive. However, what a proper rim cement does is to adhere with the ability to readhere if the original glue joint separates. In other words, it's self-healing. Most adhesives don't work that way and you don't get that safety with products like 8008/8001. There are a couple really good rim cements out there, and loads of people who can help you through any problems in using it. Alternative adhesives are simply a danger and bad judgment.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:54 am
Posts: 35
Is 3M cheaper than other regular rim cement? or better?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:00 am
Posts: 24
At 225# I have used it for a few years on Bora 50 wheels with no issues. I find it not as messy and easier to work with. The application process is the same. As far as cleanup, acetone or wait till it hardens and you can peel off the excess. Comes in Black and Yellow. Only have used the black.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:44 am 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 1036
RedCoke wrote:
Is 3M cheaper than other regular rim cement? or better?


No to both. At times Fast Tack has caused problems with peeling carbon fiber off rim tire beds. It creates a bond but won't reaffix if the bond pulls loose, which tubulars tend to do. If you are just riding straight line rides and not racing hard, you may not pull your tire loose, but in that case you could use practically any adhesive. If the idea is to be certain your tire won't roll in a hard turn or on a steep descent, 3M has caused problems for enough riders who do test the limits of their glue jobs. It also doesn't mix well with regular rim cements, so you have to clean off your rim completely before applying Fast Tack, and then if you for any reason need to apply Mastik One, you have to clean off all the Fast Tack. Fast Tack is incompatible with most of the tapes made for cyclocross and is incompatible with some of the newer tape-based products out there.

Over the past 7-8 years a number of us went from happy users of Fast Tack to having serious problems. After a lot of work and a lot of pushing 3M to disclose their changes in the formulation, we realized it wasn't going to work any more. At the time, Vittoria was having some stability problems and was reformulating their own glues for the same reason -- to avoid volatile organics gassing off while it was being applied. Some of us thought we were basically screwed -- no good rim cements left. But Vittoria got their act together and have a product that works really well and is much stabler than it used to be. And all the tire and rim manufacturers have pretty much planned their resins and base tape adhesives with Mastik One in mind -- they warranty problems if Mastik One was used, and they typically won't if Fast Tack is used.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:34 am
Posts: 55
3M was kind enough to get back to me regarding this:

Dear Rick,

Unfortunately, we do not have anything that we would recommend for that application. None of our adhesives have been tested on those substrates. You can try testing 08008 or 08001 if you would like, but we do not have a recommendation. I apologize for the inconvenience.

Sincerely,

Ashley A.| Product and Application Support
U.S. Business Services Operations
3M Automotive Aftermarket Division

On a lighter note while working kinks out of my thumbs after mounting prestretched Competitions I've often wondered if glue was redundant in the first place.

Given the useful insights I've gained from your responses I plan on trying the Continental brand carbon glue. Thanks all!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:22 am 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:57 am
Posts: 1309
Mastik One has been the most hassle free glue I've used out of both the Conti glues and Mastik.

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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:22 am 


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