The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
pushstart
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am

by pushstart

Interesting. Your math does look good! Ok, I stand corrected (a theme for me lately). I had always heard they were stronger, but it makes sense that they are simply stronger per mm2. As you note, these are all 2.0 at the places where spokes normally break, so I think generally the Laser is a nice weight-saving upgrade with little cost or effective strength difference.

Thanks for correction!

HillRPete
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Location: Pedal Square

by HillRPete

Still pondering one or two wheel builds for this year.

One that I've been mulling over for a long time is a 18 front radial / 27 rear 2:1 build. 36h hubs would lend themselves to that. So my question is, do you think Hope hubs would work for that? They are not spec'd for radial, but I'd only use half the spokes anyway. Rear NDS would be radial too, obviously, with 3x on the DS. Affordable 36h hubs in nice colours are few and far between.

by Weenie


Zigmeister
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm

by Zigmeister

bombertodd wrote:Zig, with your wheel addiction I think you should learn to build your own wheels.

As Eric mentioned:
eric wrote:One of the best things about building your own wheels is that you know who to blame for the screwups.


He's 100% correct. I'm still new to wheel building compared to people like Eric, but building wheels has been an amazing experience. I get exactly what I want (rim, hub, spoke tension, etc....). I really think you would like building wheels and you'll save money instead of paying people to build them for you.



It's the one thing I haven't taken on yet for bike maintenance. As suggested, I just need to learn to do it myself and invest in some tools to take care of anything. I do bearings/lube maint etc, just no spokes/tensioning myself.

Seems like steep learning curve and takes time to be a good wheelbuilder.

bombertodd
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:23 am
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by bombertodd

I actually found it quite easy if you take your time. I noticed my first wheels were not stress relieved as good as they should be and required proper tensioning after a few miles. I'm getting better now. Most of my wheels never need re-tensioning/truing after I build them unless a pothole or something smashes them. Even the first wheels I built that needed help after the first rides are rock solid after a couple times of re-tensioning. Wheelbuilding is more scary than I think many people make it out to be. Also there are few experts floating around this forum that will answer all questions.

eric
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
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by eric

There's a number of good guides on the internet. Also Jobst Brandt's book explains the engineering theory and practical points of wheel building. It's not difficult to read at all.

I think that riders who ride a lot should at least be able to true wheels. Besides being able to true your own wheels at home, when you break a spoke on a ride you can get the wheel true enough so it doesn't rub on the brake/frame/fork and finish the ride. Even if you never need it someone you ride with will. I recently did that for a multiple world champion.

wassertreter- The problem with radial spoking hubs with a lot of spokes is that the holes weaken the flange. I think that's true even if you're only using half of them.

jooo
Posts: 1504
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:48 am

by jooo

wassertreter wrote:Still pondering one or two wheel builds for this year.

One that I've been mulling over for a long time is a 18 front radial / 27 rear 2:1 build. 36h hubs would lend themselves to that. So my question is, do you think Hope hubs would work for that? They are not spec'd for radial, but I'd only use half the spokes anyway. Rear NDS would be radial too, obviously, with 3x on the DS. Affordable 36h hubs in nice colours are few and far between.

BikeHubStore had mentioned an 18:9 hub to match a centre drilled 27h SL23 but it looks like both have been removed from the site? Not sure if they've sold or just decided against offering them? They also have a couple of 18h front hubs.

Burgunder
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:36 am

by Burgunder

Why not go with a 24 or 28 rear 2:1 build does it really have to be 27?

HillRPete
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Location: Pedal Square

by HillRPete

Burgunder: yeah well the rim is already drilled for 18h, so I'm going to do nine intermediate holes. It's a bit of a project.
Here's a pic:
download/file.php?id=57611&mode=view

jooo: oh that would have been great, but I'm after matching hubs, and there neither seem to be any 36h ones on offer?

jooo
Posts: 1504
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:48 am

by jooo

Well BHS did mention a 27h rear so that would match the 18h front. Maybe you could email them?

Velo Orange offer a 36h rear hub that could match reasonably well with the silver 18h front from BHS http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/wheelsets-rims-hubs/hubs/vo-hi-lo-cassette-rear-hub.html

Novatec did or still do have a reasonably light 36h rear road hub but it may be hard to track down. I think this has also been re-branded by Velocity at some stage. Either of those would match well enough with a suitable Novatec front.

Chris King could also kind of match with an 18h R45 and 36h Classic.

Hope do an 18h front and a 36h rear RS MONO.

White industries do an 18h front and 36h rear T11.

Mack can do custom spoke count (so can Royce/Phil Wood but ewww heavy).

bm0p700f
in the industry
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

Novatec F172 for shimano or F272 are easy to come by in 36H I have several in silver and black.

When did a 310g Royce hub become heavy they have large 6001 NTN bearings which last an eternity unlike smaller bearing in lighter hubs. I think sometimes weight weenie folk need a reality check. The wheels I have planed using Royce hubs that are on order in custom drilling will weigh under 1300g hardly heavy.

Also if you do use a 2:1 lacing pattern you are better of going with a custom hub as the NDS flange on a proper 2:1 hub should be pushed out past 40mm to centre as that way you increase lateral stiffness. The Royce hubs I have ordered has the NDS centre flange to centre hub pushed out to 43mm and the DS centre flange to centre hub at 19.5mm. Tension balance will be a 90% if remember rightly.

The BHS 2:1 hubs are bitex hubs that are drilled differently but have the same dimesnions as the normal drilling version this is quite pointless.

HillRPete
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Location: Pedal Square

by HillRPete

bm0p700f, interesting. Most of the hubs mentioned are way over budget, though.

Do you think Ultegra 6800 hubs would be better suited to 2:1 lacing, for their smaller DS offset?

djay001
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:59 pm

by djay001

Burgunder wrote:Why not go with a 24 or 28 rear 2:1 build does it really have to be 27?



a 24 holes 2:1 already exist.... but you can't do a 28 holes with 2:1.

You need 2 spoke one side for 1 the other side so the number of spoke need to be divisable by 3.

28/3=9.3333
27/3=9

so you get 9 spoke NDS and 18 DS, basically one more spoke on NDS and 2 more on DS than a 24 spoke 2:1 wheel.

bm0p700f
in the industry
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

Even less sutiable as the NDS centre flange spacing is 36.6mm meaning your lateral wheel stiffness given you only have 8 NDS spokes is compromised. The best 36H hub you can use is either Novatec F172/F272 depending on weather your are a campag or shimano user (you can move the 1mm spacer about to make the flange to centre distance even more favourable) or a Miche Primato/racing box. both of these have the NDS flange out at 38/39mm.

Burgunder
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:36 am

by Burgunder

There was a logical argument I see, but something like 10 NDS and 18 DS could work if it was made but of course it wouldn't be 2:1 ;)

by Weenie


Cals
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:30 pm

by Cals

hi guys, trying to build a new set of wheels and thought this is the place to ask

am running a 6:18 hub /rear 24h rims and the wheelbuilder suggested that i go with a 3 cross on DS and radial on DS
was wanting to go 2 cross initially however the builder highly recommend a 3 cross,

will this work properly or would u guys have any opinion

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