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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 356
bm0p700f wrote:
... Lubricate your spoke thread with 3 n oil, it really works with Lasers. I was showing some one how to build wheels yesterday, it was his first build and we used Lasers and he had no issues with wind up. Also I find using Sapim alloy nipples reduces wind up even further so it is almost non existent.

Hi bm0p700f, these are really good tips ... thanks for sharing :)

thanks KL :)


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Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:28 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:04 am 
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Location: Estonia
Really good tips here :thumbup:
Could someone share their knowledge? Which rear hub will build stiffer wheel:
Option 1.
P.C.D: 41/49
L.C.F: 38
R.C.F: 18

Option 2.
P.C.D: 37/51
L.C.F: 32
R.C.F: 19

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:35 pm 
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Hi rainerhq, option1 (for the same spokes, spoke lacing and rim) ... thanks KL :)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Option 1 hands down. NDS flange spacing is critical to lateral wheel stiffness.

What is happening with the silver Velocity A23's. Why is every one I pick up has swarf inside it and when built I can can't have even tension and a round wheel like i can with the Black A23's. Are the silver one made in a different factory with really poor QC or have I just got a really bad batch. These silver one's are to the point where I am thinkin of not buying any more. The rim todaybuild up with even tension and is round until it get to the rim joint and there is a bump of over 0.5mm. I do not like this. Kinlin's and Open Pro's are better than this.

I do not have any roundness issues with the other rims I use so it not my wheel building. Anyone had similar experineces? Is velocity addressing the issue. The U.K distribtor seems to be unware of the problem. I am sure it not me being picky.

What is the quality of the Pacenti rims like. I am seriously thinking of importing some.

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 Post subject: The wheelbuilding thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:55 pm 
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Bm0 - have you noticed varying hole depths around the joint as well? I have seen some spots so thick on those rims that the wrench flat of a 12mm nipple is right against the rim.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:49 am 
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No have not seen that, that wold be rim I would have posted back.

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 Post subject: The wheelbuilding thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Posts: 42
Location: Poormans Canyon
rainerhq wrote:
Really good tips here :thumbup:
Could someone share their knowledge? Which rear hub will build stiffer wheel:
Option 1.
P.C.D: 41/49
L.C.F: 38
R.C.F: 18

Option 2.
P.C.D: 37/51
L.C.F: 32
R.C.F: 19


I run your numbers with the clarification that the largest PCD number is for the right flange. I also used an ERD of 588 and 28 spokes. Tds at 120kgf. Tnds in kgf.

Option 1
DS/NDS........Tnds.........Bracing angle ratio NDS/DS
2x/2x..............57.7.........2.1
2x/3x..............59.4.........2.

Option 2
DS/NDS........Tnds.........Bracing angle ratio NDS/DS
2x/2x..............72.6.........1.7
2x/3x..............74.5.........1.6

EDIT: typo corrected in bold


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:44 am 
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Hi Dcgriz, NDS Ratio is not the most important aspect with these hubs. They both will have sufficient NDS spoke tension, although Option2 will provide higher NDS spoke tension :)

Option1 will produce a stiffer wheel and may even allow DS heads-in lacing, without any RD Cage strike issues, which would build an even stiffer wheel than Option2.
Option1 (for the same spokes, spoke lacing and rim) will produce a wheel with better spoke bracing (Lateral Stiffness) and allow for a variety of Spoke Lacings to be employed :)

thanks KL :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:02 am 
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Location: Estonia
Thanks for replies. Opt1 is Novatec and Opt2 is Dati.
I was asking this, because I have one Dati hub and thought I can use it, but seems like Novatec is needed.
Is it even possible to build a decent (laterally stiff) rear wheel with Dati 24H hub?

P.S Rim is 50mm carbon.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:13 am 
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Hi rainerhq, with a 50mm carbon, yes, absolutely. The Dati still has good hub specs and will work well with a 50mm rim ...

You asked which was the stiffest ... 24H 2xDS/NDS should be good. What does Dati recommend? :)

To ask, how heavy are you? ... if you are < 90kg (especially < 80kgs), I would say no worries :)

thanks KL :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:57 am 
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Location: Estonia
I don´t know what Dati recommends.
I´m 67kg.
I had rear wheel built with this Dati hub with Lasers.
NDS radial and 2x DS and it rubbed brake pads when standing on pedals. Maybe spoke tensions were wrong. I rebuld this wheel with Race spokes (2x both sides) and Novatec 172 hub. 75kg rider uses this wheel now and said it´s ok.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:14 am 
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Posts: 356
Hi rainerhq, was the Dati hub previously built with the 50mm carbon rim, when it was rubbing on the brake pads?
I use a hub with much worse specs (29.5/18 CTF and 27mm deep rim) than the Dati and it does not rub (hmm, but perhaps occasionally it did with 2xDS/NDS) ...

have fun ... thanks KL :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1804
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
rainerhq wrote:
Is it even possible to build a decent (laterally stiff) rear wheel with Dati 24H hub?
P.S Rim is 50mm carbon.


It depends on the rider. Not the rider's weight so much as riding style. For example I'm 66kg but when I stand, which I do a lot, I rock the bike more than many people. This puts lateral force on the wheels. So a laterally flexy rear wheel will flex more under me. On a wheel with narrow flanges like American Classic I can bounce the rim off the brake blocks at will. A rider who is heavier but does not stand much, or who keeps the bike more vertical when they do, won't put as much lateral force into the wheel and can get away with a laterally flexier wheel.

The stiff rim will help some, as will thicker spokes. You could get a better bracing angle on the NDS by lacing radial heads in.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:07 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
NDS bracing angle is so important more so than any other factor.

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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:07 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Yes, it is important ...

Hi rainerhq, if you have any doubts or don't feel like rebuilding the wheel then it is probably best not to use the Dati hub, besides the Novatec has much better FTF spacing :)

You asked if the Dati hub was still good to use and the answer is Yes it can still be used with the 50mm carbon rim 24H 2xDS/NDS ...

thanks KL :)


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