Seriouly total bracing angle in mathematically meaningless. stop qoting it! You cannot add the bracing the angles and then work out the lateral tension/stifness component. You have to do that for the DS and then the NDS and then sum if you want to do that. Try doing the sums KLabs and you will see.
The individual bracing angles are enough and most of the lateral wheel stiffness comes from the NDS spokes but thin spokes are sufficent for good stiffness on the non drive side. You could always use K walker ACI alpina DB 2.0/1.7mm/2.0mm all round on the rear.
I am going to have to start building up my stock of these.
Hi bm0p700f, no worries and to ask, do you have the maths to shows that Total Bracing Angle is meaningless?
Yes, definitely most of the lateral stiffness is coming from the NDS bracing but there is still some lateral stiffness coming from the DS.
The summing of DS/NDS lateral stiffness will determine the wheels mechanical lateral stiffness ... the principle here is mechanics which includes geometry
Actually I have done the sums/maths (and so far you have only written conjecture) ...
I just did a further check of the maths and it would appear that an FTF spacing of about 60mm is possible
Using a FTF spacing = 60mm, flange Ø = 51mm/51mm, CTF = 17.0mm/43.0mm, ERD = 600mm (Velocity A23), will produce
- Traditional 12:12, 14:14, 16:16, 18:18 spoke arrangement produces a NDS ratio = 41%, which is unacceptable
- 16:8 spoke arrangement produces a NDS ratio = 41% * 16/8 = 82%, which is very good
- 16:12 spoke arrangement produces a NDS ratio = 41% * 16/12 = 54.6%, which is acceptable
- 18:10 spoke arrangement produces a NDS ratio = 41% * 18/10 = 73.8%, which is good (WinterRiders excellent option)
- TBA = 11.8 to 12.5 degrees (3x to 0x), which is good to excellent lateral stiffness.
I know from the TBA that a 16:8, 16:12, and 18:10 spoke arrangement, should produce a rear wheel that is very strong and very laterally stiff, but a traditional spoke arrangement cannot be used because the NDS ratio = 41% is unacceptable (even though lateral stiffness is not an issue, the wheel is not radially stiff enough)
The 18:10 spoke arrangements, depending on NDS spoke lacing, is perhaps the best for durability and the 16:12 is perhaps the best for spoke breakage and repair
A heavy and powerful rider should find this wheel stiff and responsive
Although FTF = 60 is probably a little wide for NDS heads in lacing ... so FTF could be a little wider, say 62mm, and crows foot heads out lacing used
At this time there is no need to stop quoting TBA, and it would be wonderful if you tell me where it is wrong
Actually, if the DS/NDS bracing angles were each 6 degrees (or more), then we would not be having this discussion and this thread would not be necessary.
I have rarely seen a front wheel discussed in this thread and that is because left/right bracing angles are equal and >= 6 degrees, although this is changing with the introduction of disc brakes
Hey bm0p700f, do you have anything (mathematically) that simplifies, or assists, someone to decide that a hub, rim, and spoke lacing pattern can be used successfully for their weight and power ... all good, thanks