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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:32 pm 
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I think Mr. Gibs suggestion of the Archetype is a good one. The A23 OC is a solid rim, but from a quality standpoint, I would give it an above average type of score. The finish on the Archetype on the other hand is easily a similar quality to the C2 from Hed.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:21 am 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
A 28 spoke rear with the A23 should be fine at 160lbs. So yes more spoke and use 24 on the front. The archetype would be a good choice as well bt I would still build 24/28 for some one like yourself.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Thanks, I wish the new Pacenti came in silver. One final query. At 160 I'm not superlight but not heavy. In this thread I've seen quite few light aluminum rimmed build than what I'm proposing, and both stans and AC sell al rimmed wheels with lighter rims than the A23 or Archetype, using less spokes than 28/24.

Are those rims so much better designed that they can get away with it or are the wheels less strong than you would recommend?

I'm leaning toward A23, 28/24 seems like it should be pretty light and decently durable, but their are lots much lighter wheels bandied about in this thread.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:16 pm 
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@styrrell- Well, you could probably get away with a 20/24 on the Alpha 340, but it is noticeably softer in that low of a spoke count. I've always viewed it as a hoop that really needs to be overbuilt on.

I think the A23 is a bit more practical though. Quite a bit stiffer than the Stans, and the OC drilling in the rear can give you a solid NDS offset.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Thanks, I appreciate the advice. Any comments on the silver vs polished version of the A23s? The pics I've seen onlinedon't show much difference, but its pretty difficult for pics to really show much.

The bike is bare Ti with very little carbon, just the enve fork, sram red levers / RD and seat. I bit of bling wouldn't hurt it any ;-)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:31 pm 
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I'd go with the polished rim. The silver frankly looks cheap and somewhat low quality. Polished or black is the ticket.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:20 pm 
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You would be more than fine with a 24/28 spoke on the Alpah 340's, Kinlin XR200 however using the same spoke count on a A23 rim will be more durable. For the sake of 40g which is what 8 CX-rays with alloy nipples weighs I really don't see the point in sacifising durability for 40g.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:37 pm 
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Hey Peoples, what are your opinions on spoke tieing re wheel stiffnes, strength, and ride ... thanks :)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:44 pm 
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@KLabs- The only thing that I've noticed with tied spokes is how difficult it is to replace a broken one. As far as rigidity goes, there is no real world difference, at least these days.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:17 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
With tied & soldered spokes, a broken spoke will stay in place and not jam in the frame or otherwise do something dangerous. So you can keep riding until you can get a wheel off the team car. That's the only advantage I can see.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:01 am 
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Zen Cyclery wrote:
@KLabs- The only thing that I've noticed with tied spokes is how difficult it is to replace a broken one. As far as rigidity goes, there is no real world difference, at least these days.

eric wrote:
With tied & soldered spokes, a broken spoke will stay in place and not jam in the frame or otherwise do something dangerous. So you can keep riding until you can get a wheel off the team car. That's the only advantage I can see.

Hi Zen Cyclery and eric, what about if only done on the NDS when the NDS tension where it is low (about 44%) ...

I have seen a rear wheel that uses plastic spoke ties (neat idea) ... http://velostage.com/pro-lite-bracciano-review/ ... just page down a little (I can't get the img to work) ... [img ... how to add an image .../img]

Hmm ... yes, when the wheel is static (no torque, lateral, radial forces are being applied ... not riding) spoke ties don't do anything to address spoke tension or stiffen the wheel.

... but when torque, lateral, radial forces are applied (dynamically - while riding) this is when the mechanics of the spoke tie may have an effect on each spokes tension/detension cycle. For example, while one spoke is pulling and the other spoke is pushing (one spoke is in tension while the other spoke is in detension), and because these two spokes are tied, the 2 spokes should assist each other during each spokes tension/detension cycle. If this is the case then each NDS spokes tension (while riding - sprinting/climbing) should remain tensioned even during the detension cycle (ie. closer to static tension) :)

Nonetheless, even if the spoke tieing does do this for a 2xNDS, a 3xNDS would still control torque effects better, improve the static NDS spoke tension, and make the wheel a little more compliant (give a better ride) ... now, if the previous analogy is correct then what would be the effect with 3xNDS and 2 spokes tied :)

What do you think ... sound reasonable :)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:56 am 
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Spokes are still able to move, as they are only held together with the wire. Solder does nothing but keep the wire from unraveling. It's been tested for lateral and torsional stiffness (and probably radial too), there is simply no benefit. The fact that there is no real benefit to interlacing, we still do it bc that's the way it's always been done, supports the notion as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:10 am 
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thisisatest wrote:
Spokes are still able to move, as they are only held together with the wire. Solder does nothing but keep the wire from unraveling. It's been tested for lateral and torsional stiffness (and probably radial too), there is simply no benefit. The fact that there is no real benefit to interlacing, we still do it bc that's the way it's always been done, supports the notion as well.

Hi thisisatest, yes if the spokes can still move then they are not tied (and interlacing and spoke stiffness would be more effective), but what about these spoke braces (spoke ties - no soldering) used on these wheels ... http://velostage.com/pro-lite-bracciano-review/


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:15 am 
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Location: Slovenia---that forest land
What do you have experience with powertap hub and assimetric drilled rims?

I get excellent tension on FRM388 26" tubeless, 32 cx ray (3xcross both sides), cyclops powertap pro disc barke.

Tension is cca 120kg on DS and cca 80kg on NDS

cheers

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:17 pm 
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thisisatest wrote:
.[/b] The fact that there is no real benefit to interlacing, .


Bold mine.

Does not the interlaced spoke keep the head of the partnered spoke from lifting away from the rim under conditions of compresssion? Thus preventing.. to some degree.. the head slap of rapid retension.. meaning less elbow strain?


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