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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Weight is not that important even the weight of the rims. but this is WW so a 425g hub pair is bit heavy for most people here but they do last. My measurements of tension NDS/DS confirm the tension balance with flange spacing the way I measure them. If 14.6mm ds flange spacing was true the tension balance would be less than 40%. I get tension balance of 46% (correction to the earlier statement). I am measuring from the crentre of the flange to the lock nut. Not to sure how Miche come up with 14.6mm for that measurement.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:17 pm 
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Posts: 380
Hey all, just about decided :-)

Front:
Rim: BHS C472w (or H+Son Archetype) 24H
Hub: Novatec A291SB 2x 24H
Spokes: Sapim Laser or CX-Ray and Sapim 14mm Aluminum Red Nipples

Rear:
Rim: BHS C472w (or H+Son Archetype) 32 hole
Hub: Novatec F482SB, with ABG freehub, 32H 4xDS 2xNDS ... this lacing should give almost equal DS/NDS spoke tension
Spokes: Sapim Laser or CX-Ray and Sapim 14mm Aluminum Red Nipples

Weight is approx 1520gms ... what do you think :-)


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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:17 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:06 pm 
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Posts: 468
KLabs wrote:
Hub: Novatec F482SB, with ABG freehub, 32H 4xDS 2xNDS ... this lacing should give almost equal DS/NDS spoke tension


I've seen this mentioned in this thread before, and it is absolutely not true.
Even if you could lace a 32h hub 4x, the nds tension would still be only 50%.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Location: McCall, ID
I don't think that the lacing would equalize tension as much as you think. If you want to up NDS tension, go with an OC rim like the A23 from Velocity.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:43 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Seattle
Zen Cyclery wrote:
I don't think that the lacing would equalize tension as much as you think. If you want to up NDS tension, go with an OC rim like the A23 from Velocity.
I just finished building a Powertap G3 28h with Aerolites on a DT RR440-Asymm offset rim. The rim's offset is 2.25mm and with my DS tension at 120kgf, the NDS average is about 67kgf. Had I built this with a non-offset rim, it would likely have been around 55kgf instead.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Mackers wrote:
KLabs wrote:
Hub: Novatec F482SB, with ABG freehub, 32H 4xDS 2xNDS ... this lacing should give almost equal DS/NDS spoke tension


I've seen this mentioned in this thread before, and it is absolutely not true.
Even if you could lace a 32h hub 4x, the nds tension would still be only 50%.

Hmmm ... the experienced wheel builder I have occasionally been discussing this with said the DS/NDS tension would be almost equal.
He implied that it was easy, with 32H, to lace the DS 4x (even a 28H) ...

Perhaps I misheard him ... what about 4xDS 1xNDS or an 18:9 4xDS 0xNDS using a 36H hub and rim?

A question, how much better are sapim cx-rays compared to lasers and sapim compared to pillar ... thanks :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:55 pm
Posts: 169
Location: New Jersey
Hey guys, random thought here but how would you feel about using white lightning clean ride as a spoke prep? It's a wax lube so in theory it would be a lubricant during wheel building and then dry out and potentially hold the spoke? Just an idea.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:29 pm 
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Location: McCall, ID
@Klab- I have always been a big fan of the Sapims. It seems like Pillar changes their designs every other week, where as Cxrays are tried and true.
The Laser is an awesome spoke. The Cxray does have more of an elastic tendency which I really like.

@yeagermeister- Dont use White Lightning. Just use linseed oil if you want to do it on the cheap.

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 Post subject: The wheelbuilding thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:07 am 
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Posts: 354
This may be a shot in the dark, but has anyone built stans a340's with BHS hubs, in a 2x pattern (using cx rays). I did my research and checks, but being told by wheelbuilder that they are too long for the rear. Probably not helped by the fact that the ERD is different depending where you look. Would be good to confirm my mistake before I she'll out on getting different spokes.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:49 am 
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Location: New Jersey
Thanks Zen, I was more curious because I already have the White Lightning, would it work as Linseed oil does when it dries up?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:32 am 
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Location: NoVA/DC
Klabs,
The only way you're gonna get 4x lacing on 32 holes or less is if one side has double the spokes as the other, so it may be your 18:9 suggestion. Conventionally, you get slightly better bracing angles from reducing crosses, so a radial DS would help even it out. NOT to be mixed with 2:1 lacing, obviously.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:47 pm 
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@yeagermeister- All though the White Lightning is wax based, I doubt it would retain any sort of vibration dampening quality. When linseed oil dries, it becomes almost like dried honey. It is not only somewhat sticky, but it also absorbs road vibration quite well which helps to keep your nips in place relative to the spoke.
Its also available at any hardware store for $10.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:21 pm 
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Location: Slovenia---that forest land
Linseed oil - good for salad and nipples :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:55 pm
Posts: 169
Location: New Jersey
Thanks zen linseed oil it is then!


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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:48 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:23 pm
Posts: 99
So I'm finally getting around to lacing up my gen 1 powertap that will be used on my tri bike (with a plastic disc cover regularly). Given I have a specialized transition, I'm worried about clearance on the NDS between the cover and the chainstay.

78/36.2 NDS, 66/16.7 DS -- pretty tough geometry to be working with!

I was thinking 1x heads in DS with Sapim Race and 3x NDS using Wheelsmith AE15's (are they even available? QBP?), so they lay flat on each other, or am I being ridiculous? CX-Rays would cost more than the rest of the build, so they're out. Would 2x NDS help with clearance?

Lengths I'm getting are 261mm DS and 280.5mm NDS. What should I round to? Are spoke/nipple washers recommended? The last wheel I built was ages ago (and for my old, old commuter bike) so I'm a bit rusty.

Thanks!
Daniel


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