The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
User avatar
Zen Cyclery
Shop Owner
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Location: McCall, ID
Contact:

by Zen Cyclery

@campbell- It sounds like the tension on that rear wheel is too low. I think you should take it to the LBS and have them check both the drive and non drive side tension. When spokes break at the J-bend, it is a tell tale sign that tension is too low, especially when it is on the rear non drive side.

campbellrae
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:20 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

by campbellrae

^^ Thank you for the quick response! Will speak with them tomorrow about that.

by Weenie


bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Probably the tension as Zen said. Tie and soldering won't solve that problem more tension will though. Also 2x on a 32H wheel is a bit unusual. I am sure it work but 2x is normally done on 28, 24 and 20 spoke wheels.

User avatar
kavitator
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Slovenia---that forest land

by kavitator

Ok what do you think soldering and tieing help for stiffer wheelset?

eric
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Contact:

by eric

It doesn't make the wheel stiffer. It does mean that you can ride with a broken spoke and not worry about it jamming in the frame.

User avatar
Zen Cyclery
Shop Owner
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Location: McCall, ID
Contact:

by Zen Cyclery

kavitator wrote:Ok what do you think soldering and tieing help for stiffer wheelset?


It won't improve rigidity at all. It will make replacing a broken spoke a nightmare though.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

I have never done I can just see it being a faf and hassle. Faff and hassele are too things to avoid.

Miele
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:27 am

by Miele

zed wrote:
Zen Cyclery wrote:
Miele wrote:Questions for you Pro wheel builders - I just had some Kinlin XR-19W rims laced to BHS hubs with 24/28 lasers built by a local shop - as I have yet to enter the wheel building world. I am around 185 lbs and had no problems with old Cane Creek Volos 24/28's, or Campy Zonda's for that matter. Front wheel is great , however when I go to drop the hammer, the rear just dosent transmit the torque to crest that hill or power the flats. They spin fast but I cant muscle my way up a climb like I used to. I guess I should have gone XR-300's but:

I wanted to check spoke tension first - what should the DS and NDS tension be? NDS spokes feel quite low in tension...

Would it make a difference to rebuild with 'Race' spokes instead on both DS and NDS?

Thanks!


I was worried about this problem on these rims. They are only rated to go 105 kgf for max tension, which definitely makes me a bit skeptical. Even if upon the initial build, they were setup to 105 kgf DS, this is still low enough to where I would think the nips would gradually start unwinding.
Go ahead and check the DS tension and make sure it is at 105 or just a tad abobe. For the NDS, you aren't looking for any specific number. As long as your DS is good, and the wheel is in dish, then you should be good to go.
I doubt switching to Race spokes will do much either. If getting the rear back up to proper tension doesn't change the ride quality, you may want to consider rebuilding to the XR270 or what not.


The combination of BHS rear hub with its suboptimal geometry and low max rim tension is not going to yield a durable wheel with lower spoke count. The extra low NDS tension will cause problems on that side, especially for 180+ lb rider. Contrast that to the use of Kinlins XR-270 or 300 with good high tension on DS, and the BHS hubs will do well.


So I guess rebuilding that wheel with a different rear hub with wider flange spacing and/or diameter would help? Hub suggestions so that it would match the black BHS front hub? I cant sell it now - canti pad just flipped and wore off black ano on one side.... :evil:

thisisatest
Shop Owner
Posts: 1980
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Location: NoVA/DC

by thisisatest

Zen Cyclery wrote:
kavitator wrote:Ok what do you think soldering and tieing help for stiffer wheelset?


It won't improve rigidity at all. It will make replacing a broken spoke a nightmare though.


it's not as big a hassle as one would think. a "bic" lighter will work. OTOH, it does nothing for stiffness or strength.

User avatar
kavitator
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Slovenia---that forest land

by kavitator

Will tyeing and soldering spokes help to prevent unwinding spokes in low tesnion wheelstes (wood rims as a case)?

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Why not use spoke freeze or self locking nipples instead? A tied and soldered spoke can still loose tension I would have thought and therefore the nipple could unwind.

User avatar
kavitator
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Slovenia---that forest land

by kavitator

i have no problems with unwinded spokes...just looking for oppinions about soldering. I get wire and i dont know if it is worthy doing this :)

User avatar
rainerhq
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Estonia

by rainerhq

rainerhq wrote:Need little help here.
LBS built me wheels. I have about 1000km on them, but the rear wheel has no lateral stiffness. Brakes are almost fully open and there is still rub, when standing and pedaling bit harder. With hand I can move rim towards brake pads 5mm or so.
HongFu 50mm tubular rim
Dati hub 24H
Laser spokes NDS: radial, heads in; DS 2x, interlaced spokes.
My weight 67kg.

Got good answers from here, but another idea...
Could this problem be because the wheelbuilder did not hold the Laser spoke in place, when tightening the nipple and did not use grease on spoke threads? So he did not eliminate the winding. When wheel is in use, spokes are turning back to straight position and also lose tension.
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride"
Jamis Renegade Expert
Spark 900 RC

eric
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Contact:

by eric

When the spokes are wound up they making pinging noises as they loosen. Each spokes only loosens once, usually starting as soon as you start riding the first time. Wound up spokes would not cause a flexy wheel.

Lateral stiffness is affected by the hub's flange spacing, the number of spokes, rim stiffness, spoke thickness, and lacing pattern.

User avatar
rainerhq
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Estonia

by rainerhq

Thanks eric.
Will let LBS to rebuild it tomorrow:
Novatec F172SB hub,
L.C.F 38mm
R.C.F 19mm
Race spokes, 2x both sides.
Wheel will be 110g heavier, but it comes mainly from hub. New spokes will add 32g
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride"
Jamis Renegade Expert
Spark 900 RC

by Weenie


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post