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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:39 pm 
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I´m now riding the 1990s campy shamal 16h wheels on my road bike and am looking for building a lighter and "springier" set of wheels. Have more or less decided to use the alpha 340 rim. My first idea was to use dati hubs and dt revolutions or sapim lasers (possibly stronger spokes for the rear drive side) and build 28h rear and 24h front. Now though, I came across the older zipp 182 82 hubs with 24h rear and 20h front not that much more expensive than the datis.

I weigh 67 kg (148 pounds) and ride quite smooth and believe I´m not that hard on equipment. Will train maybe 1000 miles a year on the wheels and do a couple of crits. I would need some opinions on which hubs to use? I guess the zipp hubs are of a better quality than the datis and would build into a stiffer wheel due to the straight pull spokes? Would that somewhat equal out 4 spokes less per wheel? With the zipps I guess you can only do radial lacing front and rear non drive side and 1x drive side? With the datis there are more possibilities for cross lacing. What would you choose for my purposes, are both options still too fragile?


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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:39 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:52 pm 
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marcopantani wrote:
I´m now riding the 1990s campy shamal 16h wheels on my road bike and am looking for building a lighter and "springier" set of wheels. Have more or less decided to use the alpha 340 rim. My first idea was to use dati hubs and dt revolutions or sapim lasers (possibly stronger spokes for the rear drive side) and build 28h rear and 24h front. Now though, I came across the older zipp 182 82 hubs with 24h rear and 20h front not that much more expensive than the datis.

I weigh 67 kg (148 pounds) and ride quite smooth and believe I´m not that hard on equipment. Will train maybe 1000 miles a year on the wheels and do a couple of crits. I would need some opinions on which hubs to use? I guess the zipp hubs are of a better quality than the datis and would build into a stiffer wheel due to the straight pull spokes? Would that somewhat equal out 4 spokes less per wheel? With the zipps I guess you can only do radial lacing front and rear non drive side and 1x drive side? With the datis there are more possibilities for cross lacing. What would you choose for my purposes, are both options still too fragile?


If your going to be upgrading hubs, I think there are much better options out there than the Zipps. Those (well the 88/188 combo) are notorious for being inconsistent with regards to durability. Since your building on the 340 (which is definitely a softer rim in a relative sense) I think that going with something with wider flange spacing would be a good idea to increase lateral rigidity. Maybe the Alchemy ELF/ORC. They don't come cheap, but they are a solid hubset that will build up a much more rigid wheelset than the 182s.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:16 pm 
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thanks for your response, yes can see that the elf/orc are a real upgrade. Forgot to mention that the build is on a budget, the zipps were about 190 dollar for front and rear, actually about the same as dati hubs now as I did the currency calculation. Just the question if I would be better off with zipps. But perhaps I should instead go 32h 24h or 32h 28h with circus monkey hubs or other similar ones? Can you recommend another hub with wider flange spacing in that price and weight range that comes in silver?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:58 pm 
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Bike Hub Store? The rears have pretty wide NDS flange spacing but not wide DS flange spacing. They have wide flange front hubs. And the prices are right. If you want wide DS flange spacing you could always lace them 1x heads in on the DS. But there may not be enough clearance between the spokes and derailleur cage, depending on the derailleur you're using (Shimano seems to have a little more clearance than SRAM).


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Also Novatec A291/F482 hubsare not too bad on the flange spacing side. The alchemy hubs have better flange spacing I think particularly on the front but are cheap and fairly light. The F482 has better drive side spacing than the BS rear hub.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:47 pm 
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marcopantani
for 67 kg you can make for xample a 1320g wheels on a standard components:
Rims Kinlin xr-200, spokes Mac 424 od D-light, nipples alu, hubs ...Novatec 291.482, front radial, rear 2x , 20/24 hole.
This complet was tested for 65 kg and wheels are very good, you can make it 24/28 and will by stronger for allround use. ( like this my product https://picasaweb.google.com/1104808309 ... 3216708322 )

you get a lighter hubs, wheels wil be lighter.

ypu can also use Alpha rims.....more expensive

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:30 pm 
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A 28F/28R build with XR 200's Novatec A291/F482 hubs and Sapim CX-ray spokes + alu nipples is only 1330g. For the weight weight saving of 10g apparantly I would not bother with less spokes go with more. The XR200 is a fairly flexy rim.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:26 am 
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thanks a lot for the feedback! Will use the wheels for campagnolo record 8 speed (with 9 speed cassette and spacerkit) and campagnolo 11 speed.

The kinlin xr 200 is very attractive price wise, but I think I prefer the wider inner profile of the alpha 340 plus it being a bit lighter. The BHS hubs look nice for the price, especially the SuperLight Wide Front Hub. In case of the rear hub I guess novatec 482 is best in regards to the flange spacing (in this price and weight range). Is there a big difference comparing it to the bhs and dati or even rotaz hubs to motivate the extra 30-45 grams? Would 24f 28r both 2x still be solid enough with either option? Will the rear be the weak point so that I should consider 24f 32r?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:09 am 
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The XR-200 I have in the shop are 360g each. A 340 rim is 385g. So the Kinlins can be lighter but as you say they are narrower.
For Campag freehub bodies a Novatec F582 would be needed. The F482 is shimano spline. Never had any of the the other hubs you are talking about to compare them to Novatec. Given the Novatecs work so well and spares are easy to come by in the U.K (distributor support) I won't be using the other hubs you mention.

I have never tired putting a modern campag cassette on a 8 speed freehub body. I thought that combination didn't work. Also all the modern hubs are for 9/10/11 speed campag splines.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:44 am 
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I was then thinking about the old alpha which seem to be about 355g, but 360g for kinlin is really light, saw other listings of about 385-390g. Is it just your rims or is this the standard weight? Ah, ok, Novatec F582 it is then, didn´t realise that there were different models for shimano and campagnolo..

Think you got me wrong, would use a 9-11 speed hub and use a 9 speed cassette and remove one cog and use spacers so the cogs will be in the right place for the 8 speed derailler.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:32 am 
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I only have had two XR-200 and these are the light ones. I have been unable to update the listings with the new weights as the listing has not updated.

When I buy some more I will weigh those for sure.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:15 am 
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i just get some kinlin xr200 rims. weight from 372 to 401 g. black colour

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:06 pm 
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I have ust re weighed mine now I get 377g and 378g. Looks like there was a weighing error. Sorry at least that's more resonable.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Going to be building up a new set of clinchers as a spare set which will be used on my rain / gravel / commuter bike when I want to run somthing other than my Nemesis / Royce / Veloflex which are a great.

I am thinking of using Royce hubs again (like butter, not Lance's and USPS butter) with H Plus Sons Archetype rims. Due to the deeper depth than my Nemesis would it still be worth going 32 hole 3x or will I be able to reduced the spoke count. I'm not talking of going really low maybe 24 front 2x, 28 rear 2x NDS 3x DS ? Or should I stick with the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" build 32 hole 3x all round ?

I currently weigh 190 lbs, probably will drop maybe another 10 lbs.

New to wheel building (starting building my own wheelsets about a year ago) and all advice is gratefully received.

Many thanks,



Si :-)

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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:34 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:11 pm 
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Well I am 180lbs and ride a 28 spoke RR415 rim whih is 19 or 20mm deep. So yes I would say you can reduce spoke count. 28 rear will be fine I am sure and 24 front also. Should be a nice wheelset. But with 32 spokes it will be stiffer and you reduce the risk of anything going wrong with the wheel when going through those potholes. I will also be able to carry a heavier load incase you fit a rack and put loaded panniers on it.

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