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 Post subject: lube
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:55 pm
Posts: 1318
Location: UK
I messed about with different stuff over the years and ended up with Purple Extreme lube for threads and nips on alloy rims. A few mm's in the bottom of a jam jar, dip the threaded ends in then rattle the excess off the inside of the jar. Then, when the wheel is built loosely, drip one drop into each eyelet. If its a mega-tension job I'll use grease.

I use a tiny amount of coppaslip on carbon rims with external nips just at the interface and thats about it.

Purple Extreme evaporates well over time and just leaves a nice amount of lube to enable smooth movement in the future. It was developed for offshore wet lubing so it is good enough to last the winter on a bike wheel. Nothing else I've found lasts as well.

For locking threads, I'll use ABS nylock nips on the non-drive side or the whole wheel if its called for. These don't move even in a hard landing or nasty pothole so are great for CX wheels, MTB and BMX use. For alloy nips, I crimp Sapim 14mm alloy just a tiny amount at the top of the threads or use Loctite 280 after the wheel is finished. It creeps down the thread with capillary action so works really easily.

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 Post subject: lube
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:01 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:37 am
Posts: 431
Location: Colorado
Is it alright to use spoke length 1 0r 2 mm longer than required.

I am building a powertap sl+ hub to Kinlin 200 rim. spocal and dtswiss says I should use 286.2 and 284.6 mm. I want to use Sapim CX-ray and the only length available is 288 and 286 is the closest I can get.

what should I do? Suggestion please.

Thanks for any help.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:37 am 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Posts: 1322
Location: Arizona
dlight wrote:
Is it alright to use spoke length 1 0r 2 mm longer than required.

I am building a powertap sl+ hub to Kinlin 200 rim. spocal and dtswiss says I should use 286.2 and 284.6 mm. I want to use Sapim CX-ray and the only length available is 288 and 286 is the closest I can get.

what should I do? Suggestion please.

Thanks for any help.


Order the spokes from Jeremy at Alchemy Bicycles. He sells odd lengths of cx-rays and will also sell you just the amount you need. His email is jparamax at yahoo.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 am
Posts: 1882
Location: Islip, NY
Late to the game but here goes.

1) Even if you think you know the ERD, measure it yourself. I and many other builders have been bitten by wrong info. I made spoke rods from Wheelsmith 310mm blanks. I cur the elbows off, threaded the other end and put some nipples on with red locktite. I measure the overlap and subtract that from a constant. Each rim is measured in 4 places around. This is more important with alloy rims and you will also have a good idea how round the rim is when you start.

2) I use spocalc.exe Google it. It's a great calc. Once everything is measured, I put the numbers in. Here the important part. For light gauge spokes (1.5 butted, CX-Rays or Aerolites), I subtract 1mm from the calc for the front and drive side spokes. I subtract 0.5mm from the non-drive spokes. This gets me flush to the nipple. For heaver spokes like 1.8mm or 2.0mm I only subtract 0.5mm from the front and drive spokes and 0 from the non-drive.

3) I really like the FSA tensiometer. It's more expensive, but it's great if you plan on doing many wheels. Otherwise, the Park is fine.

4) Truing, dishing and tensioning should occur at the same time.

5) Don't sacrifice even tension for that last bit of truing. Some rims are just not perfect and it's better to have more even tension. It will take many wheels to judge where this compromise is. In general, rims like Reynolds and Edge Composites get true and still have very even tension. The same cannot be said for many alloy rims.

6) It's easier to learn with a regular wheel (32 spokes, heavy gauge, double butted spokes, and brass nipples). Don't try to be a hero on the first wheel.

7) My secret weapons are a Phil Wood spoke cutting machine, TS-3 stand with dial gauges that have rollers for tips (very smooth, even readings), anti-seize compound for threads (regular automotive stuff), Kendall Super Blu for nipple/rim interface, DT spoke wrench, FSA tensiometer as stated above, Park WAG-4 dish tool, long nipple driver, and I use a few different tools to put the nipples in place in the rim. Usually I just use a metal punch I found that holds onto the nipple just enough to get it in place and then I use the driver to thread the spoke. I use a bunch of different things I've made along the way for high profile rims. The easiest is just another spoke that you thread one nipple on as far as you can so there are a few mm of threads sticking out the other end. The you use that thread and put the new nipple on backwards and down into the rim you go.

If I can think of more, I'll post it here. If anyone asks me a question via PM or email, I'll answer it here if it pertains.

Good luck,
Eric


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:30 am
Posts: 66
How do you guys pre set the spoke deepth in the nipple when building with edge rims. On a std. rim most wheel builder take the nipples up till one or two threads are showing on the spokes to get a base line. It would be cool to have somthing like this http://www.ebikestop.com/problem_solver ... TL1302.php but with a socket


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 Post subject: nips
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:55 pm
Posts: 1318
Location: UK
Just bring them up until the resistance of the nylock can be felt. Or, bring them up so the threads just disappear into the rim. I don't think there is a need for a fancy tool here unless you are lucky enough to be building LOADS of them.

:)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 3657
Location: Leg hurty
Gantzer, I do a very similair thing to the traditional method.
Just do up the nipple with a 3/16th nut driver until the thread is just reaching the outer of the hole, I use this as a starting point and go up a couple of half turns to get some tension in the wheel before alternating between truing and checking the hop in the rim.
Some of these nut drivers need to be modified a bit for some rims as the wall thickness of the socket can make them too wide to fit nicely into certain rims.
I just grind mine down a bit on a bench grinder to get a nice taper shape on it. :)
I don't even bother with a nippler tool for the Edge rims as the driver works fine for fitting the nipples.
You can make a nippler tool by using an old spoke and bending a T shape on the top of it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 211
Just about to build my second pair of wheels: Suntour Superbe Pro track hubs to Mavic CX18. I'll use these in the local track league so they are 36hole 3x, DT comp and brass nips. Nothing fancy.
Does 100kgf tension sound right ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Posts: 1322
Location: Arizona
Wester-Ross wrote:
Just about to build my second pair of wheels: Suntour Superbe Pro track hubs to Mavic CX18. I'll use these in the local track league so they are 36hole 3x, DT comp and brass nips. Nothing fancy.
Does 100kgf tension sound right ?


I wouldn't go over that as the cx18 is a very light older tubular rim. The older tubular rims were designed for higher spoke counts with stiffer spokes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:37 am
Posts: 431
Location: Colorado
After checking out Troy's gallery of wheels, I think I have settle on a build for my powertap sl+.

Niobium 27mm, cx-ray 32, 3x nd, 1x d. Would this make for a stiff and durable wheelset? I am shooting (hoping) for sub 1000 g rear wheel. I weight 155.

I have also found two different ERD for this rim. Does anyone know what is the real ERD. I know there is a variance but which ERD should i use to buy spokes.

Thanks in advance.

D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:25 pm 
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Shop Owner

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Posts: 1322
Location: Arizona
I am doing that exact build for someone at the end of this week but he weighs 190lbs. If you use 586 you will be safe on the spoke lengths. You won't make it to your sub 1000g goal but you will be really close, the wheel should weigh 1020ish when done.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:37 am
Posts: 431
Location: Colorado
Thanks Troy,

I would think this makes for a stiff and durable wheel?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Posts: 1322
Location: Arizona
dlight wrote:
Thanks Troy,

I would think this makes for a stiff and durable wheel?


Yes I do, especially at your weight.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:37 am
Posts: 431
Location: Colorado
I came up with 282.3 (nd) 260.2 (d) using the 586 ERD. Following ergott recommendation of subtracting .5 mm from the nds and 1 mm from the drive side I get 281.8 (nd) and 259. 2 (d). Rounding up would put it at:

282 mm (nd)
260 mm (d)

Does this sound right?


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 Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:34 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:51 pm 
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Shop Owner

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Posts: 1322
Location: Arizona
dlight wrote:
I came up with 282.3 (nd) 260.2 (d) using the 586 ERD. Following ergott recommendation of subtracting .5 mm from the nds and 1 mm from the drive side I get 281.8 (nd) and 259. 2 (d). Rounding up would put it at:

282 mm (nd)
260 mm (d)

Does this sound right?


Yes, those are correct.


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