The wheelbuilding thread
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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.
If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.
If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
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If the goal is to build a stiff and reliable rear wheel, is it good to use heavier spokes (e.g. DT Swiss Aero Comp) both on DS and NDS or is it better to use lighter spokes (e.g. CX Ray) on the NDS and heavier spokes only on the DS?
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- in the industry
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well stiffer spokes boths sides is stiffer than stiffer/less stiff spokes.
I have used different spokes each side of the rear wheel for a while but I am moving away from that for many wheels as it does not seem to offer an advantage. Most wheels I build now have the same spoke all round. There just does not seem to be a gain I can find.
I have used different spokes each side of the rear wheel for a while but I am moving away from that for many wheels as it does not seem to offer an advantage. Most wheels I build now have the same spoke all round. There just does not seem to be a gain I can find.
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I have a set of hubs 18F/24R (survived from a Bontrager XXX 2010 broken set) and I would like to build a carbon clincher set for training. Because of the 18H of the front hub, I don't have allot of choices. Any suggestion ?
PS I live in Europe
PS I live in Europe
All the usual Asian vendors will do any drilling you like
My measurements are
Front 293.7
Rear 288.8/285.3
If I use 14mm nipples I'd use spoke length
Front 292
Rear 286/284
Dt comps from starbike come with 12mm nipples.
Question, should I go the next spoke longer (2mm) to use 12mm nipples or use the spoke lengths I've listed for 14mm nipples and get the 12mm nipples?
I hope I don't confuse you with this.
Regards
Front 293.7
Rear 288.8/285.3
If I use 14mm nipples I'd use spoke length
Front 292
Rear 286/284
Dt comps from starbike come with 12mm nipples.
Question, should I go the next spoke longer (2mm) to use 12mm nipples or use the spoke lengths I've listed for 14mm nipples and get the 12mm nipples?
I hope I don't confuse you with this.
Regards
Hi
Dt swiss nipple threads go up by 1mm pr size:
whereas sapim nipples should stay the same between sizes:
so 1mm longer spokes in your example
edit: or try out the DT swiss spoke calculator that seem to include adjustments for this:
https://spokes-calculator.dtswiss.com/en/calculator
The spoke length changes with different nipple selections.
Dt swiss nipple threads go up by 1mm pr size:
whereas sapim nipples should stay the same between sizes:
so 1mm longer spokes in your example
edit: or try out the DT swiss spoke calculator that seem to include adjustments for this:
https://spokes-calculator.dtswiss.com/en/calculator
The spoke length changes with different nipple selections.
- jekyll man
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- Location: Pack filler
jekyll man wrote:One of the bigger units in our club has bought some 7800? hubs on Open pro rims secondhand as a set of training wheels or spares.
However the rear is 28h built 2x with what looks like Sapims version of revolutions.
He's complaining its a bit flexy and you can hear spokes slackening off under effort although the DS feels fairly tensioned up.
They're in pretty good condition so rim isn't worn or anything like that, but any suggestions to what can be done to improve it for him?
Would a 3x DS be okay on that hub and use a heavier gauge spoke such as a DT comp?
Cheers
Quick update:
Rebuilt with Race spokes and 3x, done as a favour, and hes as happy as larry with it
Official cafe stop tester
Looking for some input, not sure if this is the best place to ask but here goes. Recently built my first wheel, relacing my powertap hub 32h with a DT Swiss r460 rim, 3 cross with DT comp spokes. It went well and the wheel is holding up straight and true so far. I've seen another powertap hub for a good price on the local classified listings, which I might bid on so I don't have to swap training wheels between the road and TT bike!
Anyway, getting to the point. The hub is only 24h. Seeing as I am around 90-95kg (depending on season) I think this is probably borderline, so I think to add strength is to go with a deeper alloy rim, which I wanted to do anyway. Do you guys think this will add enough strength? I have my eye on either the DT Swiss R511 or the Kinlin XC279. The Kinlin XR31T would be even better but it's not very easy to get a hold of in Europe (besides ebay), if anyone has a good website or dealer I'm all ears. Do people have any opinion one way or the other? I really liked the 460 rim, it gave me no problems, but then I have no reference as its my first wheel. Other semideep and not massively heavy rims that I'm glossing over?
I'd probably look to build it like this:
powertap 24h hub
Kinlin XC279/DT Swiss R511/Kinlin XR31T if I can find it?
Sapim Race 2 cross (I thought maybe go with Laser but all the official sites say don't use them if you're not an experienced builder?)
I'm a bit confused with the spoke choice. I dont really wanna go CX Ray because at 3 bucks a spoke that's getting to be a bit over my budget, and weight isn't my primary concern, unless CX Ray's are the only spoke that will be strong enough. I guess I'm wondering if I should go with Race (or DT Swiss Competition which I've used and is similar I guess?) or go with the stronger (?) but trickier (?) spokes like a Laser or Revolution.
Apologies if these questions are all way too basic.
Anyway, getting to the point. The hub is only 24h. Seeing as I am around 90-95kg (depending on season) I think this is probably borderline, so I think to add strength is to go with a deeper alloy rim, which I wanted to do anyway. Do you guys think this will add enough strength? I have my eye on either the DT Swiss R511 or the Kinlin XC279. The Kinlin XR31T would be even better but it's not very easy to get a hold of in Europe (besides ebay), if anyone has a good website or dealer I'm all ears. Do people have any opinion one way or the other? I really liked the 460 rim, it gave me no problems, but then I have no reference as its my first wheel. Other semideep and not massively heavy rims that I'm glossing over?
I'd probably look to build it like this:
powertap 24h hub
Kinlin XC279/DT Swiss R511/Kinlin XR31T if I can find it?
Sapim Race 2 cross (I thought maybe go with Laser but all the official sites say don't use them if you're not an experienced builder?)
I'm a bit confused with the spoke choice. I dont really wanna go CX Ray because at 3 bucks a spoke that's getting to be a bit over my budget, and weight isn't my primary concern, unless CX Ray's are the only spoke that will be strong enough. I guess I'm wondering if I should go with Race (or DT Swiss Competition which I've used and is similar I guess?) or go with the stronger (?) but trickier (?) spokes like a Laser or Revolution.
Apologies if these questions are all way too basic.
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- Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:16 pm
Can't help you with the decision whether 24 spokes is enough for your weight: I lack experience for that, being 62kg and having build only 3 pairs of wheels so far (4th coming up)
But if you're looking for XR31's in Europe: Malcolm sells them at thecycleclinic.co.uk and in the Netherlands Sven from voltcycling.nl has them as well. I have ordered hubs from Malcolm and rims from Sven in the past and can recommend both. I think they both sell on ebay as well.
Geometry of a Powertap hub is pretty bad, IIRC tension on the NDS is only 46% or so. Reason why I went for an asymmetric XR31, with 14x Sapim Race on the DS and 14x Sapim D-Light on the NDS. It is holding up very well although with my weight I am not really stressing it of course; then again bike packing in Austria on gravel and very bumpy asphalt went fine too.
But if you're looking for XR31's in Europe: Malcolm sells them at thecycleclinic.co.uk and in the Netherlands Sven from voltcycling.nl has them as well. I have ordered hubs from Malcolm and rims from Sven in the past and can recommend both. I think they both sell on ebay as well.
Geometry of a Powertap hub is pretty bad, IIRC tension on the NDS is only 46% or so. Reason why I went for an asymmetric XR31, with 14x Sapim Race on the DS and 14x Sapim D-Light on the NDS. It is holding up very well although with my weight I am not really stressing it of course; then again bike packing in Austria on gravel and very bumpy asphalt went fine too.
@assaiger: Personally I'd pass on that plan. Not sure how much deeper profile the new rims you're thinking of are, but my experience with a Reynolds DV46ul rim (28 2x spokes) was not good on a Powertap SLC+ hub. Spoke breakage occurred at the nipple/spoke junction. I weigh 200lbs. Sold them to a lightweight (150lbs) Cat 1 racer friend and he hasn't had any issues with spoking. And I'm not sure how you've concluded that lasers or revolutions are stronger than their heavier counterparts like Race or Competitions.
The newer Powertap hubs may be better, I don't know. Since going to crank based powermeters I've had zero experience with Powertap.
The newer Powertap hubs may be better, I don't know. Since going to crank based powermeters I've had zero experience with Powertap.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
@calnago, from the reply I think it's directed at me only that's not my username This hub would be the SL+ I think. I've not really concluded that the lighter spokes were better, I was asking. I thought due to the treatment they'd received that they were more resistant to fatigue, and could be built with higher tension than the heavier but "weaker" spokes. But I am here to be educated every which way, hence my post. Sapim Race and DT Comp are still butted so I guess they are ok? So all the Laser/Revo add is being lighter? The rims would be about 31-32mm deep as opposed to the 23mm (ish?) of the r460 rim.
@Dutchmountains. Thanks for the addresses. I am also Dutch so I will look into voltcycling. Confusing when Kinlin is licensing their rims and getting them rebranded, harder for me to track down! I don't see any rims for sale on the website but I guess I'll shoot them an email. Can you elaborate as to why the geometry of the powertap hub is so bad? I have a set of H plus Son Archetype with Novatec hubs (built by a professional) and the hub flanges for example are much lower than the powertap. Flange width I can't get an accurate measurement as they are both laced, obviously that's rather important.
@Dutchmountains. Thanks for the addresses. I am also Dutch so I will look into voltcycling. Confusing when Kinlin is licensing their rims and getting them rebranded, harder for me to track down! I don't see any rims for sale on the website but I guess I'll shoot them an email. Can you elaborate as to why the geometry of the powertap hub is so bad? I have a set of H plus Son Archetype with Novatec hubs (built by a professional) and the hub flanges for example are much lower than the powertap. Flange width I can't get an accurate measurement as they are both laced, obviously that's rather important.
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com