The wheelbuilding thread

[eric]

I consider spoke prep (or grease) on the threads a treatment to prevent the nipple threads seizing, not to keep nipples from loosening. That's done with proper tension and stress relieving as you said.

Rim cracking depends on the rim. Some are more prone than others. They seem to help on the XR270s I have been using. The washers also make fully tightening the DS spokes easier, especially on chinese CF rims. I agree they're kind of a pain when building.

[bm0p700f]

It depends on the chinese CF factory as I find building with CF rims is alot easier than with alloy rims.

[HermesSport]

Yeah, a lot of the time the natural stiffness of carbon rims makes them very forgiving to build with. That's not to say stuff doesn't come out of the mold somewhat wonky sometimes, but as a general rule if you have a carbon rim and an aluminum rim that weigh the same, you'll have a much easier time with the carbon one.

I've never really seen the need to use washers with carbon rims - chances are, if the rims are breaking at the spoke holes without washers, there's some larger issue at play with the rim that ought to be addressed, rather than using washers as a band-aid.

[dmulligan]

I understood that the reason @eric and @pushstart were recommending washers was to make the nipples turn easier when close to final tension. Most carbon rims that I've looked at are reinforced big time at the spoke nipple holes. I've often wondered if it is what makes these rims as heavy as they are.
D

[pushstart]

Yeah, that is really the only reason I use washers (polyax washers, so they don't need extra spoke bed surface area). I have had cases (w/alloy rims, anyway) where imperfections in spoke holes (e.g. burrs or rough edges?) made for difficulty turning nipples as things got tight. Broken a couple of alloy nipples in that fashion in earlier builds. Anyway, the washers just make that interface consistent, so I always use them. Maybe it adds 10 minutes total to a build. I also always tape thin round spokes (e.g. Lasers, D-Light) so I can visually see windup. I used to only do that by feel and while I think that worked pretty well, I get a bit more confidence from easily seeing any windup. That probably also adds 10 minutes to the build.

[dmulligan]

Is there a way to clean up, or at least detect, problems at spoke holes on carbon rims before we start lacing them up? Prevent problems instead of curing them?

[eric]

I've sometimes deburred the inside of spoke holes on aluminium rims. On CF since I can't see down in there very well I'm not sure what I'm messing with, so I figure it's better to leave it alone.

[dmulligan]

I was thinking of something like spinning a brush on the inside of the spoke hole. That might either dislodge loose burrs or catch on them indicating their existence.

Sent from my Oneplus One using Tapatalk

[Marin]

The carbon isn't hard enough to damage or block the nipples, so there's no need to do anything I guess.

[Miele]

I also use polyax washers. A little more trouble for lacing, but makes builds easier IMO (consistent surface for nipple). I use them on all nipples.

I used to use linseed oil; now I use motor oil. I make sure I am not winding up spokes so the threadlock qualities of linseed are not necessary and just make the house smell like a wood workshop

I have 4k miles now on my LB U45 (disc-brake) wheelset. It was super easy to build; has been rock solid. I weigh somewhere around 75kg, laced this one 2x and 28-spoke F/R so maybe a little more spoke than necessary, but it gets ridden hard.

I would just use your tensionometer to get DD tension up to 130-135kgf. Pretty straightforward.

A bit surprised you are going LB rim-brake clinchers for the mountains, but assume you have done the research on braking surface temps etc. Obviously wasn't a concern to me w/ disc.

Do you mind telling me what hubs you used and what your total weight was for the wheel set?
I am looking to improve on my Circus Monkey, H Plus Son disc build. Currently 1630 but I am trying to figure out what to do next.
Thx!

[pushstart]

Do you mind telling me what hubs you used and what your total weight was for the wheel set?
I am looking to improve on my Circus Monkey, H Plus Son disc build. Currently 1630 but I am trying to figure out what to do next.
Thx!

Sure. I used Novatec a XD711/D712SB hubset (28/28, as mentioned). CX Ray spokes. ~1600g (1598g). Could have saved a bit of weight with 24 spokes, but I am more confident on 28 for my everyday diac-brake wheels.

My next wheelset will probably be straight-pull DT Swiss 350 hubs laced 24/24 to the Novatec 40mm disc-brake specific rims. Or maybe the wider LB 350 rims.

[bm0p700f]

I am over 80kg and my set is 24f/28r velocity aileron rims on novatec d771 d772 hubs with cx ray spokes. Very stiff and have survived Paris roubaix amongst other less stressful rides. These weigh 1580g and lighter hubs like dt 240s could take more off. The build I dis for my wife's bike with carbon tubular rims weighs 1300g with dt 240 hubs and sapim race spokes. Using cx rays or lasers would save even more weight. Light disc brake wheels are very possible.

[aussietim]

Piggybacking on the recent discussion regarding carbon rims, I am looking to build a set for myself and a friend. The plan is tubular semi aero, relatively light for crit racing and flat road races. We are both circa 70kg cat 3 level riders

He has a set of 16f/20r DA9000 hubs from some C24 clinchers he is hoping to use. I was originally planning 38mm deep section, however due to the need for increased stiffness required for the low spoke count I am considering the light bicycle U45 25mm wide rims (360g). Do you think these will be stiff enough? Obviously 16/20 isnt ideal but it would be good to use the hubs he has or should these be saved for a very deep build?

Similar to previous discussions I was considering using nipple washers to help with final tensioning as the required tensions are going to be high. Does anyone have any ideas what tension to use on the front? I used washers on my last build and didn't find it too much of a pain.

For my self I was going to build the same rims 20/24, considering hope mono hubs (I have found them at a good price and I am really impressed with the evo hubs on my CX bike) or BHS/Novatec SL's if I wanted to to go super light. Do you think the extra weight and money is worth it for the Hope hubs?

Both builds to use CX-rays or equivalent. I know the aero benefits are super low but he wants them mainly for looks and should make the build easier.

None are super weight weenie for a Tub build but should be a good compromise.
His 16/20 DA ~1267g
Mine 20/24 Hope ~ 1318g
20/24 SL hubs ~ 1228g

[bm0p700f]

tension a wheel as normal 950N front 1200N DS rear. There is no magic this is what works.

Hope hubs or Novatec SB-SL no contest really. One is light and unreliable one is fairly light and reliable. I put bitex hub in the same catagory as novatec SB-SL hubs but that only because I want hubs to be useful in all weathers. those lightweight hubs maybe be fine in dry conditions but in the u.k it is rarely dry. Also I went of the hubs when a brand new set had bearing failures on the first ride. It happened more than once as well.

[pushstart]

I had issues with one disc-brake BHS (Bitex) rear hub; however, I had another set with 12k miles trouble free (then I sold them and believe they are still going strong). I did use Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs when building my new CX and commuter (road) wheelsets, though, since I had been using them on MTB for years without problems. (Have been great so far.)

I also have around 5k miles on my Novatec disc hubs and they have been flawless, but 5k miles isn't extensive and I tens to ride that bike in drier weather (there have definitely been exceptions). I would probably take the weight penalty of Hope if I wanted a set of hubs that would last for many years. But I also like building wheels so a hub that only lasts a few years is a blessing in disguise!