The wheelbuilding thread

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

Moderator: robbosmans

Forum rules
The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 5777
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

When you get the rims measure yopurself and when you get the hubs measure yourself. It is the only way to be sure.

The ERD is 587mm bty but really measure yourself as it is an effective rim diamter and depending on how you measure 585mm could be right also. There is always an acceptable range.

277mm or 278mm should both work if for radial spoking based on those measurements. The 277 will mean that you will come up to tension alot quicker. and you might have part of thread showing on one or so spokes. IO would plump for 278mm.

But really measure yourself. doing the ERD your self also helps decide if the rim you have is round to start with.

djay001
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:59 pm

by djay001

for now i have builded 3 set of xr-270, i always take 587 for ERD take on bikehubstore website, everything was always good with spoke length, and i'm already building an other set with xr-270

for the weight, i have build a 24/28 kinlin xr-270, sapim laser front, laser nds, race DS, alu nipples front and NDS, Brass DS. With BHS hub for 282gr for the set and it came out at 1503 gr including rim tape(38gr) so you can get it to around 1475 gr with veloplug. Circus monkey seem comprable in weight with BHS hub.


The build i'm doing now, is 20/24 xr-270, laser front R NDS, alu nipples, Rear DS race and brass nipples, with a set of 260gr hub, with veloplug and i'm just under 1400gr, around 1390gr.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
Zen Cyclery
Shop Owner
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Location: McCall, ID
Contact:

by Zen Cyclery

We use the stated ERD of 587 for all of our Xr270 builds, and that seems to give us just the right length spokes.

visionz001
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:46 am

by visionz001

thanks for all the help guys I'll probably begin purchasing components soon :)

User avatar
zed
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:15 am
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Contact:

by zed

Zen Cyclery wrote:
Miele wrote:Questions for you Pro wheel builders - I just had some Kinlin XR-19W rims laced to BHS hubs with 24/28 lasers built by a local shop - as I have yet to enter the wheel building world. I am around 185 lbs and had no problems with old Cane Creek Volos 24/28's, or Campy Zonda's for that matter. Front wheel is great , however when I go to drop the hammer, the rear just dosent transmit the torque to crest that hill or power the flats. They spin fast but I cant muscle my way up a climb like I used to. I guess I should have gone XR-300's but:

I wanted to check spoke tension first - what should the DS and NDS tension be? NDS spokes feel quite low in tension...

Would it make a difference to rebuild with 'Race' spokes instead on both DS and NDS?

Thanks!


I was worried about this problem on these rims. They are only rated to go 105 kgf for max tension, which definitely makes me a bit skeptical. Even if upon the initial build, they were setup to 105 kgf DS, this is still low enough to where I would think the nips would gradually start unwinding.
Go ahead and check the DS tension and make sure it is at 105 or just a tad abobe. For the NDS, you aren't looking for any specific number. As long as your DS is good, and the wheel is in dish, then you should be good to go.
I doubt switching to Race spokes will do much either. If getting the rear back up to proper tension doesn't change the ride quality, you may want to consider rebuilding to the XR270 or what not.


The combination of BHS rear hub with its suboptimal geometry and low max rim tension is not going to yield a durable wheel with lower spoke count. The extra low NDS tension will cause problems on that side, especially for 180+ lb rider. Contrast that to the use of Kinlins XR-270 or 300 with good high tension on DS, and the BHS hubs will do well.
http://www.zedwheels.com - wheels made just for you

TuplaO
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:00 pm

by TuplaO

Thought I'd pop in for a reality check. I'm wondering about spokes. Thinking about getting some Nemesis 32s with CK R45s built (with Veloflex Roubaix). How does Laser or Revolution with Race or Competition on the DS sound? I'm 88 kg and am not after a 'bombproof' set. Just something that will ride nice and stay true (and be reasonably non-heavy). I'm not hard on my equipment and the roads around these parts aren't too bad.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 5777
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Sounds fine to me. I have built several wheelsets with that sort of spoking for 90-95 kg riders although on OP's or RR465's and there have been no issues with the wheels.

User avatar
zed
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:15 am
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Contact:

by zed

TuplaO, sounds great. My typical build from 24h to 32h is Laser NDS and either Race or WS DB-14 DS. Only for heavier guys, softer rims, or tougher conditions do I veer off this for road or cross. That's notwithstanding using CX-Ray all round if budget allows.
http://www.zedwheels.com - wheels made just for you

TuplaO
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:00 pm

by TuplaO

^&^^Thank you, gentlemen. To be honest, I thought as much. It's just that so many around the internets are 'going foolproof' that I started to doubt myself...

Dimitri
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:07 am

by Dimitri

would just like some opinion's on my next wheel build.

i am planning on using tune hubs mig70/mag170, BHS472w rims, cx ray spokes.

they will be used fairly often, but i want something thats race worthy for when i don't feel like running my tub's.

im 80kg (google says 175lb). not hard on equipment but a fairly aggressive racer.

i was thinking 20H radial front, and 24H radial DS (heads in?) and 2x NDS.

is the tune hub suitable for that patern? i am leaning towards the lower spoke count for the weight and also aero advantage.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 5777
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

I would lace the rear 2x both sides. Why do you want to do DS head in lacing anyway? Radial DS spokes are used to redue the ammount of peak loading the rim experiences. This allows a lighter rim to be used. The rims you have picked is not that light anyway so I am not to sure what you are going to gain. It makes some sort of sense for some wheel manufacturers to do as they can design the hubs, spokes and rim to work together and only makes some sort of sence to shave every last gram of the rim but more weight will be needed at the hub so it's a trade off. You would also need a large NDS flange to help with torque transfer. The tune hub NDS flange is not very large at all. It small to keep the weight down. Heads in DS radial spokes are going to put a fair bit of load on the hub flange I really don't know if the tune hubs are up to it but I would not take the risk with such an expensive hub.

In fact when doing a handbuilt wheel you should be doing the same i.e. seleting compents and lacing pattern that ompliemnt eah other. I cannot see any signifiant advantages for the pattern you propose only downside.

So in my opinion don't risk it but maybe someone will come along who has done it and found no problems after a few thousand miles.

eric
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Contact:

by eric

If you want heads in on the DS, do 1x. But you only need that if the hub has a narrow DS flange spacing and if you need a laterally stiff wheel due to your riding style. If the flange spacing is greater then you run the danger of the spokes interfering with the derailleur cage (bladed spokes may address that somewhat depending on where they go from round to bladed section and the flange diameter).

1415chris
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:59 am
Location: Surrey UK

by 1415chris

Tune Mag 170 hub manual's quotation:

"The Mat 170 hub must not be laced radially! Triple-corossed spokes are optimal and at least a double crossing is required."

User avatar
Zen Cyclery
Shop Owner
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Location: McCall, ID
Contact:

by Zen Cyclery

@Dimitri- As mentioned, radial lacing may not be the best idea for the DS. It stresses the flange quite a bit, and could lead to distortion or flange failure, which is why it isn't recommended by Tune. I think you should take bmps advice. 2x both sides is going to be a great option.

campbellrae
Posts: 545
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:20 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

by campbellrae

Hi all,

Not so much a new build question but a problem that I am having with a relatively new built set of wheels, so if this isn't the right thread please let me know.

The build is Hope Pro 3 Mono hubs laced to Ambrosio Evolution clincher rims with 32 DT Swiss Competition spokes 2-Cross on the rear. The wheels have done about 2400km and were built by my LBS. Have had handbuilt wheels from them before and they have been very good, also know loads of other people with handbuilts who have had no issues. Have talked with the builder and he is as stuck for ideas as me.

I have now broken 4 spokes on this rear wheel. All of them have been non-drive side rear and have all broken at the J-bend near the hub.

My question is what do you think is the best way to stop this from happening? I am considering asking them to re-lace them 3-Cross and tie and solder the spokes but I am a bit reluctant as the hubs already have marks around the spoke holes and I am not sure how much this would affect a re-build.

Any advice would be very welcome as I am starting to get pretty hacked off!

Thanks,

Campbell.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply