The wheelbuilding thread

[eric]

Crescent-

I'm 66 kg and do a lot of steep climbs in a low gear. For aluminium rim training wheels I favor 28h rear as it makes a stiffer wheel. My race wheels are 24h but they're on carbon rims which are stiffer than low to mid profile aluminum.

I've tried 1x heads in on the DS (the broken hub pics you saw are probably mine), 2x DS/radial NDS, 2x all around, and 3x DS/2x NDS. The latter is possibly stiffer than 2x all around but not worth the mental gyrations when building it. Radial NDS heads out tended to break spokes. It's also not as stiff as crossed spokes because the bracing angle is less. I have not tried radial heads in but it seems like the spoke tension would be too low on the BHS hubs which have a fairly wide NDS flange already. It'd be a good trick for narrow flange hubs.

I have not built with those rims but given their weight they can't be all that stiff. For me, flexy rims built 24h is a recipe for broken spokes. But what causes that is riding style, especially out of the saddle. For some reason the way I pedal standing up can put a lot of lateral force on the rear wheel. That's what causes me to be hard on rear wheels. I've been working on concentrating on pulling up and though it isn't the primary goal it reduces lateral force on the wheel.

Anyhow, I'd recommend 2x all around. Maybe use Race spokes on the DS for a bit more stiffness.

[bm0p700f]

race spokes both sides if the OP really wants to use a 24H XR-200 rim i'd say. Pedalling style does effect how the bike rocks. I naturally pull up with toes inclined upwad slightly and push down that way. If you push down with toes pointing down the bike will want to lean to the right and that how eric brakes spokes. I think that how it works and if that right it is how I get away with alot with wheels even though I am 80kg.

[Crescent]

Thanks for the responses, advice, and experience. I'm not really looking for a super stiff wheel and I'm not one to notice stiff or flexible wheels. I just don't want to give up stiffness by going to an alternative spoking pattern and jeopardize an already flexible wheel even more. That's why heads-out NDS was a non-starter for me, even though I've seen a few prebuilts set up that way. I already have the hubs, so changing spoke count really isn't an option. Tubs aren't really an option for these wheels either. I'll mull over the advice as I decide what to do from here on out, but it sounds radial NDS and/or 1xDS is out, so 2x all around it is. Thanks.

[pushstart]

And bear in mind that aero benefits of a rim like the XC279 are almost certainly going to trump any weight savings, even for mountain climbing. Of course the aero benefits of the XC279 vs the XR200 may not be quantified. Also consider the XR300 or perhaps better, the XR270; those may be great compromise options.

[welkman]

Hi,

Having read this thread and built my own truing/building stand and dishing tool I have successfully built up about four wheel sets including a power tap rear. Im looking at treating my CAAD10 to a nice wheel set to match the Dura Ace 7900 group set. I can get a decent price on either the 9000 or 7900 hubs and think I will go 24/28 with CX ray spokes (as i have not built with them yet). The question is which rims to go for to keep it light? I was thinking H Plus son rims but they are quite porky, I have used velocity rims before and would like to try something new. Any recommendations?

James

[Marin]

Farsports 38mm carbon rims?

[welkman]

thought about that but they are heavy. Built up some yinshun 50 mm for my fixed which are good though. These wheels are going to be used on long fast descents around europe so they need to be ok under repeated braking, not sure I trust Chinese carbon with my life.

[pushstart]

The Archetype is a really nice rim, though. If I had a rim-brake bike, I would consider the Pacenti SL23 as a slightly lighter option than the Archetype or the Velocity Aileron. The Aileron is just as heavy as the Archetype, but should provide speed-trumping aerodynamics. Of course, build quality on other Velocity rims isn't always top-notch.

Or Stans Alpha 340/400 if you are comfortable with the blow-off-the-rim risk there. Lots of people are happy with those.

I also wouldn't trust the Chinese carbon for rim-brake application (in the mountains), but love my LB U45 disc-brake wheels.

[eric]

Long fast descents are fine with carbon clinchers. Speed is not the problem, in fact it helps remove heat from the rims. It's steep slow technical descents that require a lot of braking that can overheat the rims. I have used FarSport carbon clinchers on the steepest most technical descent we race down in NorCal and they did not fail. The race has to station multiple ambulances and medical personnel on this descent for the inevitable crashes. However there are even steeper and more technical descents here that I won't use carbon clinchers on. Chinese-sold or not.

Farsport 38mm clinchers are in the 390g range. There's not many clincher rims lighter than that.

You are most probably already trusting chinese carbon with your life. It is very likely that many if not all of your bike's carbon parts are made in china.

[pushstart]

You are most probably already trusting chinese carbon with your life. It is very likely that many if not all of your bike's carbon parts are made in china.

Yeah, I didn't mean to be supportive of bashing Chinese carbon. I should say "cheap carbon". The origin isn't the point, as obviously there is a lot of high-quality (and more expensive) stuff coming from China. I have owned Farsports rims, and while I never had delamination issues, they were terrifying to use on steep descents as the brakes were really poor. There is something to be said for the R&D and backing/support that the bigger names can bring to the table (for a considerable fee). Or even the smaller names (for less considerable fees, but still 2-3x the cost of the cheap carbon) like November, who are willing to do the work to design/spec great rims, test the hell out of them, and stand behind them. You usually do get more when you pay more, folks just have to decide whether the value is commensurate. I will continue to buy Chinese carbon for my disc-brake wheels, based on my experiences with Farsports and LB; for these purposes the quality has been excellent.

But not to digress from the purpose of this thread.

I agree that 390g is pretty damn light (for a clincher). The Alpha 340s are in that ballpark too, and those are know to be more flexy rims.

In alloy, the Alpha 400 or SL23 seem like pretty solid options. I am riding a set of Flo30 rims now on my daily rider; they sound great and feel fast (I am sure it is in my head), but those are *porky* ~550g rims. But I would happily use these in the mountains. Especially the huge 19+mm internal width makes these feel very sure-footed on descents (also in my head, most likely). My racier bike has the ~450g 45mm LB clinchers; those work just great on hills.

[TimmS]

I'm suprised nobody mentions the Ryde Pulse Sprint rims.
About 400g, 18mm internal width and reasonably sturdy.

http://www.ryde.nl/en/high-end

[pushstart]

The Ryde rims look interesting; I don't think I can get them here (USA), which is the only reason they haven't been on my radar.

[welkman]

Yep like the look of the ryde rims and will look at stans. I take your point about the carbon as well, I could well change my mind there as 90 % of my riding is on my own, training on the flat and these wheels will be used mainly for that and some crit races. They will go to the mountains for maybe two or three weeks a year on my holidays.

[bm0p700f]

24H ryde pulse sprint rims are proving hard to come by, in fact any ryde pulse rim is very hard to get at present.

The Archetype is a very robust rim wuith a thicker nipple bed than the PAcenti SL23 hense the extra weight. The Velocity aileron is 480g and a disc brake only rim so useless for rim brake bikes.

The only road rims that I think are worth considering are the Ryde,Velocity A23, DT Swiss RR440 Kinlin XC-279, PAcenti SL23, HED beglian + or the H plus Archetype. I.e wider rims with decent stiffness.

[rmerka]

Do you have an opinion on the Flo30? I've never built one up or ridden one but the rim intrigues me. I'm just curious why it didn't make the list.