The wheelbuilding thread

[aussietim]

If you search back through my posts in this thread you will find details on a powertap build I did 24h Kinlin 31. I used sapim D-light spokes 2x both sides. The powertap shell I used was from a Pro+ which has similar geometry to the SL+ I believe. The wheels have held up well over the last 18 months. I am 70kg and do find them a little flexy, occasionally I get some brake rub during full on sprints (crit racing, ~900/1000w). Unless you go for a deeper carbon rim this is probably the best you can get based on the spoke count and the poor hub geometry. It is not ideal but has worked well for me and given me a good all round wheel set with power. Being 20kg heavier you may notice it a bit more.

Looking for some input, not sure if this is the best place to ask but here goes. Recently built my first wheel, relacing my powertap hub 32h with a DT Swiss r460 rim, 3 cross with DT comp spokes. It went well and the wheel is holding up straight and true so far. I've seen another powertap hub for a good price on the local classified listings, which I might bid on so I don't have to swap training wheels between the road and TT bike!

Anyway, getting to the point. The hub is only 24h. Seeing as I am around 90-95kg (depending on season) I think this is probably borderline, so I think to add strength is to go with a deeper alloy rim, which I wanted to do anyway. Do you guys think this will add enough strength? I have my eye on either the DT Swiss R511 or the Kinlin XC279. The Kinlin XR31T would be even better but it's not very easy to get a hold of in Europe (besides ebay), if anyone has a good website or dealer I'm all ears. Do people have any opinion one way or the other? I really liked the 460 rim, it gave me no problems, but then I have no reference as its my first wheel. Other semideep and not massively heavy rims that I'm glossing over?

I'd probably look to build it like this:

powertap 24h hub
Kinlin XC279/DT Swiss R511/Kinlin XR31T if I can find it?
Sapim Race 2 cross (I thought maybe go with Laser but all the official sites say don't use them if you're not an experienced builder?)

I'm a bit confused with the spoke choice. I dont really wanna go CX Ray because at 3 bucks a spoke that's getting to be a bit over my budget, and weight isn't my primary concern, unless CX Ray's are the only spoke that will be strong enough. I guess I'm wondering if I should go with Race (or DT Swiss Competition which I've used and is similar I guess?) or go with the stronger (?) but trickier (?) spokes like a Laser or Revolution.

Apologies if these questions are all way too basic.

[aussietim]

I am looking to build a set of disc brake Cyclocross racing wheels and would love some recommendations, on a budget so the cheaper the better.

- Weight = Max 75kg
- Want to run them tubeless
- Planning 28h Front and rear
- Hubs for 6 bolt discs, 11sp Shimano
- Any spokes I should be using, sapim race?

From a little research I like the look of the stans grail rim. My current disc wheelset have older hope evo pro2 hubs which are sadly not 11 spd compatible. If I could push the budget I would love some more hope hubs but would like to hear if there are cheaper options.

Edit: Giving it some more thought I may also look at tubular options

[pushstart]

I really like the Grail rims. I have a set now on the same 10sp-only Hope Pro 2 hubs. I agree that Hope hubs are great, so I am gonna run 10sp on that bike until something breaks and makes me upgrade.

I don't race cx much, but I ride off-road a lot. I did dent one of my Grail rims, but then I was bottoming out on roots and so i think it makes sense . Tubeless setup has been easy for me on those rims. And I have built a few Grail wheelsets (for friends etc.) and the build has been really nice (round w/ even tensions). Probably my favorite rim to build with, but have always been pleased with Stans rims.

That said, from a budget perspective, you might consider http://www.bdopcycling.com/DIY%20Alloy% ... 20Thru.asp I cannot comment on how we those rims work tubeless, though. Alternatively, just using Novatec D771SB/D772SB hubs (with Grail rims) would be a cheaper and lighter option than Hope and I have had good experience with the Novatec MTB hubs that I was using on my road bike. I would buy from BDOP for the better EZO bearings or buy on AliExpress and then replace the 9802 bearings. (Which might require some bearing press/puller investment.)

For a stronger rim option you could also consider Flo30; they are burly but also very heavy (~100g heavier than Grails). Those are my main wheels (also 10sp Hope hubs) on that bike and I have around 15k miles now with no drama. Tubeless setup is easy on those too, but haven't done very low (cx) pressure there.

[aussietim]

Thanks pushstart. I just upgraded to 11sp thinking those evo pro2 hubs were compatible, as soon as I found out they were not I regretted the decision immediately.

My GF will be using them mostly and she is about 55kg so not too concerned about needing something super solid. Also unfortunately living in the UK makes flo a bit cost prohibitive with import duty etc.

Grails with the novatec sound like they could be a good option. What spokes were you doing those builds with?

[bm0p700f]

Try the pacenti sl25 that is not a bad rim. They have been fine. Also try the kinlin offset disc brake rims. Offset drilling is nice. As for hubs the shimano cx 75 is overlooked. Use centre lock rotors or an adpater. Novatec d771 and d772 are very good too as are miche syntium.

I much prefer sapim force for disc brake wheels. Triple butted spokes mean lower spoke counts last longer.

The ezo bearing in novatec hubs dont seem to do much. The novatec disc brake hubs i have with nbk bearings just work well even in poor conditions. Bearings are good on both sets after a couple of winter of mud and filth.

[ooo]

Does it make any sense to use asymmetric rim for rear disc brake wheel (h=38mm)?

How much I need to add to calculated spoke length to use sapim concave washers?

[DutchMountains]

Head over to this spoke calculator, enter your data and click on the "show complete wheel data" button. Take note of the "Tension ratio L/R". Run the calculations again, this time with the offset (usually 2.5 or 3mm) and compare the tension ratio to what you got without the offset. (don't forget to click "calculate" if you enter the offset)

To give an example: DT Swiss 350 for CL disc rear and Kinlin XR31 the NDS tension is 58% without and 74% with offset. I got the asymmetric ones, even for the front wheel. I couldn't see any disadvantages of using the asymmetric rims.

[ooo]

Thanks, that instruction was very clear. Can you have a quick look on my screenshots? (looks ok, spoke length +-0.3mm same as my other calculator)

So, centerlock this hub have better(?) 56% tension ratio on symmetrical rim comparing to 68% asymmetric rim with 2.5mm offset ?

[DutchMountains]

The description of the hub lists 34.85mm for center-to-left distance, you used 35.9 (typo?)

And just to avoid confusion: the ideal is 100% tension for the NDS (relative to DS), so 66% (asymmetric rim) is better than 54% (regular rim).

[ooo]

thanks for looking! it was typo, data and screenshots was updated after your post about typo

68% ratio from asymmetric rim is a better result comparing to 56% ratio from symmetric rim - now I understand this, thanks for your explanation!

[Subira]

Sapim have a disc specific spoke - D-Light, I prefer to use them over Race. I have built up a 'winter' wheel set of the Grail with the Novatechs. I've just changed the bearings for decent SKF ready for this winter. Ran them tubeless all UK Winter on Hutchinson Sector 28, and while I had few cuts- I didn't have to stop on a ride once.

On reflection I should have built them using Hope Hubs, either Pro2 Evo 40T or Pro4. As then you are future proofed, with the ability to have pretty much all the thru axle options.

I built a summer set, Light-Bicycle Carbon/D-Lights/Pro4, tubeless with Schwalbe One, I went 24 spoke I spite of being 85 Kg and they have been fantastic!

The Grails are 32 spoke, totally bullet proof.

[bm0p700f]

Uhmm let me dispell a myth. The reason why the d light exist is to allow wheel builders to keep the weight down on disc brake builds. The spoke is less prone to wind up than a laser but is no more disc specific than any other spoke. As sapi race spokes are stiffer they should lead to lomger life of the spoke elbows. Using the force spoke means a thicker e'bow and even longer spoke life.

I have disc brake wheels built with lasers and cx rays, low spoke count as well. These work fine because the wheels are very stiff. It is the overal stiffness of the wheel, lateral, radial and torsional that dictates spoke life. The stiffer the wheel the smaller the tension changes and the longer the spokes will last. Spoke fail at the elbows so it matter little what sapims fatigue tests show as in there test the spoke would fail in the mid section (if they are performing a standard faigue test)

[stubob]

Bought the BDOP build kit with the Kinlin XR31Ts, should be here this week. I don't know if I'll get around to building this weekend, but I'll try to post some info as I go through the build.

[Edit: the box arrived yesterday. Good packing job, rims are separated by cardboard and plastic, other parts are individually wrapped and packed together in a small box inside. Rims weight right on spec, front 20h was 480g, rear asymmetrical 24h was 475g. I'll be very happy if it all builds out under 1500g like it's supposed to.]

[F45]

Did a set of 27.5 mountain wheels today. 32/32 3x on XTR M9000 rear, XT M8000 front. Pacenti TL28 rims, DT Aerolite spokes, aluminum nipples.

I figured that I had 32 spokes so I didn't need a heavier spoke.

The TL28s are 23mm id. They have a thick black paint coat and a max tension of 100kgf. F/R 406g/410g.

XTR rear hub 280g w/o lock ring
XT front hub 168g w/o lock ring.

734/833, 1567g total.

[stubob]

BDOPs are done. 660g front, 840g rear. With the asymmetric rear rim, the tensions came out about 70/100. They're so wide I had to re-adjust my Planet X brakes. This was my first build with bladed spokes, and, wow, that was nice. Having a spoke holder prevents windup, so no pinging on the first ride.

Pics coming soon.