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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:51 pm
Posts: 4
Hello,
I will build my first wheel with these components : It's a front road with disk, size 700mm.
- Novatec d771 disk
- rim Dt swiss RR 411 asymétric disk
- spokes CN aero 424

I have some difficulties to calculate the spokes' length. Is it right ?

Image
Image

Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3264
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
those are the wrong lengths I get 295/297 with a ERD of 601mm assuming you will use there silly internal nipples. shorter lengths if you use other nipples.

ERD is 596mm using standard sapim nipples 292/294mm.

This is with 3x lacing. you have selected radial both sides which is a mistake and even then the length calculated are too long.

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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:05 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:51 pm
Posts: 4
bm0p700f wrote:
those are the wrong lengths I get 295/297 with a ERD of 601mm assuming you will use there silly internal nipples. shorter lengths if you use other nipples.

ERD is 596mm using standard sapim nipples 292/294mm.

This is with 3x lacing. you have selected radial both sides which is a mistake and even then the length calculated are too long.


I've just done again the calculation with 3x lacing and the result is greater as you can see on the next picture. Could you help me to find my mistakes ?

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:35 pm
Posts: 159
Is Shimano gonna release their R8000 hubs? Anyone know what spoke count? I saw the press release but they made no mention if they would be sold on their own. I like shimano wheels but their internal width is embarrassing


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:17 pm
Posts: 57
pachag wrote:
bm0p700f wrote:
those are the wrong lengths I get 295/297 with a ERD of 601mm assuming you will use there silly internal nipples. shorter lengths if you use other nipples.

ERD is 596mm using standard sapim nipples 292/294mm.

This is with 3x lacing. you have selected radial both sides which is a mistake and even then the length calculated are too long.


I've just done again the calculation with 3x lacing and the result is greater as you can see on the next picture. Could you help me to find my mistakes ?

Image
You have the rim thickness as 21mm. It's just asking for the thickness of the material not the depth of the whole rim. It will probably be more like 2mm. Hopefully this helps :)

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:15 am 
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm
Posts: 349
waltthizzney, Shimano offer Ultegra level RS770 disc road hubs only, no R8000/R9100
Spoke count on Shimano hubs ≥ spoke count on Shimano wheelset of the same group + 4

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Posts: 3264
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
use spocalc spreadsheet or the lengths I gave you. all you need is the erd and hub dimesions. The rim thickness is not revelant as it affects ERD along with the nipple used.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:26 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:24 am
Posts: 2
Finally finished reading the Entire Thread! Whoohoo!

Frustration with "expert wheel builders" led to research into becoming my own expert; this thread convinced me to "do it myself!'
Events
Rode wheels that came with bikes
Hit by car, elbow shattered, stayed away from bikes for twentyfive years, four months, some days...
Rode mountain, wheels that came with the bike
Bought factory wheels for first road build of current century, Easton EA90SL set, which rolled for ~50k miles - now hung up for backup duty

Spec WI T11 hubs, Hed C2 rims, butted spokes, request same buildup as Easton set, radial front, 3x DS, radial NDS rear
Rear won't stay tensioned or true
Rebuild rear (different mech, local), same as before, which stays true, however, rim cracks some months later
Re rim, rebuild again (different mech, same local shop) - fah builds with straight gauge spokes, won't stay tensioned or true
Get mad

That's it, never again! I'll make the mistakes, in my own shop, from now on.

Thanks mostly to reading here, now believe that first build was under tensioned, second build over tensioned, third build under tensioned.
Furthermore, both sides should be 2x, NDS a more stretchy spoke.

Proper and even tension - baby bear, not too much, not too little - seems crucial.

Buy spokes, tools, nipples, build, ride, check tension and true a few times, more riding - so far, so good.

87 KG
~300 km/week
mostly smooth pavement, undulating terrain

WI T11 hubs, sapim race DS, sapim cxray NDS, brass nips, 2x

7.5 months, just under 6k miles, rollin' fine

...stupid photobucket!
pic to follow


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 2463
Location: Vienna Austria
Nice. Yes, 2x / 2x, thick / thin is the simplest way to get a working wheel. Good job.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:16 pm
Posts: 77
Just curious, but why the CXRay spokes on the NDS and not the D-Light? D-Light is still thinner (1.65mm) than the Race, much cheaper, maybe a bit more resilient to damage during transport and you won't notice any aero benefits of the CXRay in this scenario anyway.

But yeah, I completely dig the sentiment of personally being responsible for the wheels you ride. Besides, it's just plain fun building wheels :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:24 am
Posts: 2
cxray look bitchin - no good reason


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:04 pm
Posts: 340
Practised with an old 36-spoke wheel + all the tools the past few weeks. Now ready to build my first wheelset from scatch.

Rims: 38 mm carbon 25 mm outer width (clincher)
Nipples: Sapim Polyax (brass)
Hubs: Bitex RAF10/RAR9
Spokes: Sapim CX-ray
Spoke count: 20/24

For the rear wheel I'm not sure what spoke pattern to choose. Radial NDS+cross 2 DS or cross 2 all the way? Any thoughts?

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Most "innovations" in cycling are solutions for non-existing problems.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm
Posts: 349
Anyone tried to lace/true straight-pull non-bladed spokes?
for example: Sapim Race straight-pull
Which tool can help to prevent spoke winding ?

5.6g Sapim Race straight-pull non-aero

4.3g Pillar 1420 straight-pull aero
6.5g Pillar 1423 straight-pull aero

4.6g CN Aero424 straight-pull aero
6.5g CN Aero494 straight-pull aero

any other straight-pull aero spokes under $1.5 ?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:35 pm
Posts: 110
I love when spoke mass is quoted for a spoke length that nobody uses... my recollection of Sapim Race is that they weigh around 7 grams each for lengths that people actually use.

Straight pull round spokes are a bit of a bitch... not much to build the first time, but to un-build once the thread gets seized in the nipple. For the first build, if the thread is well lubricated, you shouldn't need any tool to hold the spoke once it is in tension

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Posts: 2263
Location: Canada
HI,
Planning on building a track wheelset for light-ish ( 110 lbs) riders).

-Kinlin XR380 rims (20-24h)
- double butted spokes radial front
- 2 X rear ( straight gauge )
- Bitex hubs.

What's the recommended spoke tension on a track wheel ( narrow flange distance) ? Same as road :oops: ... ?

Thanks :beerchug: !!

Louis :)


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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:48 pm 


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