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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:11 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Even less sutiable as the NDS centre flange spacing is 36.6mm meaning your lateral wheel stiffness given you only have 8 NDS spokes is compromised. The best 36H hub you can use is either Novatec F172/F272 depending on weather your are a campag or shimano user (you can move the 1mm spacer about to make the flange to centre distance even more favourable) or a Miche Primato/racing box. both of these have the NDS flange out at 38/39mm.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:13 am 
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There was a logical argument I see, but something like 10 NDS and 18 DS could work if it was made but of course it wouldn't be 2:1 ;)


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Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:13 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:48 pm 
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hi guys, trying to build a new set of wheels and thought this is the place to ask

am running a 6:18 hub /rear 24h rims and the wheelbuilder suggested that i go with a 3 cross on DS and radial on DS
was wanting to go 2 cross initially however the builder highly recommend a 3 cross,

will this work properly or would u guys have any opinion


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:24 pm 
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Hey all, I'm building up a carbon track wheelset and I'm wondering if I should use nipple washers. Plan is 28h DA7600 laced 3x to Fast Forward F6C-C

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:20 am 
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Cals wrote:
hi guys, trying to build a new set of wheels and thought this is the place to ask

am running a 6:18 hub /rear 24h rims and the wheelbuilder suggested that i go with a 3 cross on DS and radial on DS
was wanting to go 2 cross initially however the builder highly recommend a 3 cross,

will this work properly or would u guys have any opinion


I would agree with wheelbuilder, radially laced on NDS means that those spokes are essentially passengers. Three cross on DS will give you better triangulation (nipple - hub flange - axle) and therefore less twisting of the hub.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:11 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
I think that to avoid the spokes interfering with each other a 24h hub has to be 2x unless perhaps it's got a larger flange than is normal for modern road hubs.

The rule I have seen is to divide the number of spokes by 9, which for 24h gives you 2.6 something.

Nipple washers: best to ask the rim manufacturer what they think. The Sapin poly-axe washers are pretty small and can fit down inside the 'point' of some aero rims. But if the rim is too narrow for the washer then the edges of the washer will bear on the rim and create areas of high stress.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:24 pm 
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thanks Farro4049

@eric, i'll be running UL190 on the rear, will that be adequate on a 3 cross


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:30 pm 
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Cals wrote:
hi guys, trying to build a new set of wheels and thought this is the place to ask

am running a 6:18 hub /rear 24h rims and the wheelbuilder suggested that i go with a 3 cross on DS and radial on DS
was wanting to go 2 cross initially however the builder highly recommend a 3 cross,

will this work properly or would u guys have any opinion

Hi Cals, you mean a 16:8 24H rear hub don't you? I yes, then 3xDS and 0xNDS is fine, as the wheelbuilder has suggested.
The 16H DS is equivalent to a 32H hub... 32/9=3.555555555...

The 0x(Radial)NDS will provide(help with) lateral stiffness and the 3xDS will provide good torque drive and elasticity...

If the UL190 rear hub is 16:8 then it is designed for 3xDS or 2xDS and 0xNDS, so all should be well :)

thanks :)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:43 pm 
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KLabs wrote:
I yes, then 3xDS and 0xNDS is fine, as the wheelbuilder has suggested.
The 16H DS is equivalent to a 32H hub... 32/9=3.555555555...

The 0x(Radial)NDS will provide(help with) lateral stiffness and the 3xDS will provide good torque drive and elasticity...

Any disadvantages with 1xNDS?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
No. Well, it's a little more complicated to build than radial, that's all.

You could lace all head in (or out) like radial if you want.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:37 pm 
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Thanks @eric, I asked and they said I don't need to. I'm wondering if I should do it anyways.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:18 am 
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Posts: 78
Do Shimano 105/Ultegra, White Industries rear hubs allow 1 cross? (DS) It is almost radial lacing. I don't want to damage hub.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:23 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
105 and ultegra are meant for 3x lacing only. damaging the hub though is unlikely with 1x lacing so long as the tension is not too high but it cannot be ruled out either. Personally 1x lacing on a 32H hub is not the best way to lace a wheel.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:47 pm 
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Orfitinho wrote:
KLabs wrote:
If yes, then 3xDS and 0xNDS is fine, as the wheelbuilder has suggested.
The 16H DS is equivalent to a 32H hub... 32/9=3.555555555...

The 0x(Radial)NDS will provide(help with) lateral stiffness and the 3xDS will provide good torque drive and elasticity...

Any disadvantages with 1xNDS?

Hi Orfitinho, the real question is are there any advantages to using 1xNDS in a 16:8 configuration... that is a good question...

Let's Theorise, for a moment... the Spokes will be longer and probably closer to 2x as they leave the hub flange (due to the wide spoke spacing which could be good re slightly better torque control), but would mean slightly less Lateral Stiffness (probably ok) and slightly less spoke tension (headroom to play with here).

Also, because the 16:8 NDS flange is widely spaced and the NDS spoke tension that is nearly equal to DS, then the slight reduction in NDS spoke tension might be beneficial in a 1xNDS 16:8 arrangement, because the spoke is pulling/lying non-radially over the flange. What this means is that you might be able to lace the NDS spokes heads-in rather than heads-out, which means you can use a less widely spaced NDS hub and improve BS(Bracing Angle/Lateral Stiffness for that Hub) at the same time... just a thought which is interesting, and perhaps worth a little more thought and study/consideration :)

Sounds like it could be worth a try, although it makes the build slightly more complex :)


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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:47 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:21 am
Posts: 278
Looking to build up a new set of all around road wheels that'll be used to both race and train on. Eventually will get around to a race carbon tubular set, but for now I'm set on an aluminum clincher.

I'm pretty hard set on using a set of Chris King R45s, so the debate is what rim, spokes and spoke count. I'm about 145 lbs and pretty much only doing crit styled races, so no climbing for racing.

My initial idea was:
- R45 front and rear hub
- H Plus Son Archetype (20 front 28 rear)
- CX Ray blades spokes

If anyone has any input or alternatives, that'd be great


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