Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Anth73
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:53 pm

by Anth73

Finally an end to the rain and some sunshine this morning. Perfect to take the Vittoria Elite tubulars for a 65km hilly ride. I'm still smiling from the ride! No valve stem knocking, no noises from glue separating and sticking together with each revolution and a much improved ride over the rough chip bitumen compared to my Fulcrum One clinchers even though the Elites have a butyl tube, perhaps it's the 290tpi thread count.

I did notice that my Ridley Damocles frame has just enough clearance at the brake bridge for a 25mm rear tyre. That was a lucky break as I assumed it would fit without actually checking beforehand.

Geoff
Posts: 5093
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

Luck. It has been snowing here for two days now...

by Weenie


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macbicycle
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:05 am
Location: Fresno, CA

by macbicycle

Thanks to everyone who commented on this thread. Today I completed the mounting of my first tubular tire (Specialized S Works Turbo 24) to my Enve 45 Tubular. I got some glue on the sidewalls but it's straight. Will let it cure for 48 hours and then see what the glue job looks like. If all is well a victory lap may be in order.


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As long as I breathe, I attack"-Hinault

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
Posts: 5851
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

Thank you for the kind words. 8)

If all is well a victory lap may be in order.


Best of luck, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

Denavelo
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:01 pm

by Denavelo

I had a weird thing happen over the weekend. I was climbing up Highway 39 out here in LA. It was blazing hot and the road temps had to be beyond 140 degrees or so. I'm running a set of newish FMB Roubaix 25c tires. During the climb, my rear just started losing air fast. I pulled off the road and inspected my rear tire and not a single puncture. Used a C02 and filled up the tire and continued on the climb. Maybe another 30 minutes I'm losing air again. WTF? I put in 1/2 bottle of stans sealant and the sealant was almost coming through the tire, like the tread was transparent, fricken weird right?

I make it up to the top of Crystal Lake and now my tire is holding air. Before the descent I used a buddies frame pump to put as much air as possible to make it down the 15mi descent back into Glendora. When I get to the bottom, everything seems fine. I get home and pump the tire up to 110psi just to fill it up and monitor the air loss. The tire has sat for about 24hrs and it' still pretty hard, maybe down to 100psi.

When I pulled over on the climb the second time, I noticed my tire was ridiculously hot, like even hard to touch with bare hand for longer than a few seconds. My question is, can the latex tube inside a tubular tire get so hot that it loses air in that manner? My guess is the road temps were so hot that the latex couldn't hold air. Is that a good guess at what happened? Are FMB tires and other latex inner tube tubulars sensitive to hot road temps?

I was all bummed that my Roubaix tire was trashed and losing air, but once I got home and under cooler temps the tire holds air like normal.

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Speedvagen Road Machine "2011 Surprise me | Cannondale SuperSix Evo | Rob English "Mudfoot" 29er | Firefly Ti #419

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dj97223
Posts: 662
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm

by dj97223

I doubt it was heat-related. I suspect you had a flat from a tiny puncture in the tread and, before the sealant fixed the puncture, the sealant escaped the tube and found cuts, etc. in the tread from which to escape. I've used the Vittoria sealant before on a well-worn Veloflex tubular that flatted (after hitting a pothole) and the sealant came out through a number of tiny cuts, etc. on the tread before it sealed the tube.

Very nice looking bike, btw. :thumbup:
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

Denavelo wrote:... Are FMB tires and other latex inner tube tubulars sensitive to hot road temps?
...
Temperature affects lots of things, but likely that was not the issue. We have several FMBs and those heats are not a problem. Did Bakersfield RR during the heat wave and no issues.

I have noticed that the FMB valves are often loosely screwed in. Did you tighten them?
The valve stem is copper/brass (by looks - I don't know) and the core is aluminum. Alloy has a higher coefficient of linear expansion than copper/brass, so at higher temperatures it should get tighter. So it doesn't make too much scene to me.

Geoff
Posts: 5093
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

+1. I have never heard of high heat (within the range of norma on earth) affecting a tire like that. I would tend to agree that there was some sort of puncture. I am, however, curious to hear your comment about the sealant coming-up through the tread. As the rubber of the tread isn not porous like that, it suggests to me that you had multiple punctures. When I have punctured a tubular, it has been multiple-punctures from riding through some kind of 'invisible' metal shavings on the road. I suspect that is what you had, too.

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

Our FMB that got the safety pin through it and had an attempted repair with Pit Stop. It worked till I pumped to around 130psi to check it. Then it leaked again. So I added a bit more :-). Anyway the tread started bubbling up off the case. So sending it in for repair - another thread. Just a data point.

Denavelo
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:01 pm

by Denavelo

So I rolled into Velo pasadena and the rep from Time was in the shop. I was explaining this situation to the Time rep and he says he has seen it before. Hot temps and the Latex tube not being able to hold the air in certain elevation. He also said I was constantly filling up the tire with C02 bottles and the C02 escapes from Latex faster. Sounded weird to me, but I'll just roll with it.

I did a ride yesterday and inflated the tire up to 100psi and it's holding strong. So weird. When I put in the Stans on the climb the other day, it was coming through the tire not in tiny puncture spots, but like you could see the stans through the tire tread. I've been riding tubulars for years and I've never seen something like this. I'm just going to chalk it up to a weird FMB tire. In recent past I had a set of FMB tires and one went bad after one ride from a bad valve. I still love these tires though. So smooth and plush!
Speedvagen Road Machine "2011 Surprise me | Cannondale SuperSix Evo | Rob English "Mudfoot" 29er | Firefly Ti #419

Geoff
Posts: 5093
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

That CO2 leaks faster than air, as the molecules are physically smaller. You sure have nice shoes!

yz387
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:24 pm

by yz387

Is there a limit to the number of times a tire can be glued on? More specifically, will the base tape eventually have "too much" glue attached to it? I have a set of tires which i normally glue on to my back up race wheels each year, then pull them off in the fall so I can use those wheels for cross. I have reached the point where the tires have now been on and off about 3 or four times but the tread is still in good shape, but I am starting to question the buildup on the base tape. I normally just add one thin layer of glue to the base tape each time I mount them, but eventually that adds up. Any thoughts?

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

There is not any arbitrary limit. But you want the stuff between your rim and tyre to actually be doing something like holding the tyre on. I don't think old stiff, caked glue is something to keep around and just cover up. If its still pretty new, yup, another coat MAY reactivate it and it can be useful. I spend a lot of time getting the old glue off. Some glue is easier than others. I found a Dremel tool with nylon brush works very well on the base tape.

Geoff
Posts: 5093
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

Well, first, I would never recommend mixing road wheels and 'cross wheels for the sole reason that 'cross wheels can get really contaminated with muck. If you try to take that same wheel as a road wheel by strippingnthe tire, you run the risk of having contaminated glue.

If you take potential glue contamination out of the equation, the question of whether or not you can use the glue again is dependent upon too many factors to give you an 'easy' answer. Instead, I would recommend that you carefully examine the glue remaining when you take the old tire off. Is it evenly applied to the rim still? When you push your thumbnail into it, is it soft? If you can answer 'yes', then you probably have a good candidate for re-gluing.

by Weenie


yz387
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:24 pm

by yz387

Not really worried about glue contamination; cleaning the glue off the wheels and starting from scratch each time is no big deal. More worried about all of the old glue on the base tape. I like the idea of the nylon brush on the Dremel. I think I'll give that a try.

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