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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:53 pm 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5793
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
btw i keep meaning to ask, do you know who has best prices for veloflex online in belgium/netherlands? in uk there seem to be fewer resellers and more expensive!


I don't know of any e-shop in Belgium or in The Netherlands that carry Veloflex. If there are any then I'm sure they'd still not be as cheap as some of these e-shops in Germany and Austria:

http://www.velo-motion.com/

http://jedi-sports.de/

http://www.bike-palast.com/

These are usually 20 to 30% below RRP. Best time to buy them is just before or during the traditional cycling season since the demand is higher and the prices drop by five to ten Euro depending on the shop.
They just don't want to check a tubular or two as it costs too much in handling time.

If there are other good sources you guys know about then, by all means, list them here. 8)

Ciao, ;)

_________________
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 569
Location: it's raining, it must be uk
ah, much cheaper than uk!

thanks


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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:52 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:38 pm
Posts: 19
Right, all my research is done, I ordered my tubs (4 Veloflex Arenbergs – 2 to use now, 2 to start aging, plus one Carbon to fold up and use as a pre-glued spare) and they are on their way to Ireland from Germany, so I wanted to ensure I have everything else sorted out so I can get to work when they arrive.

I ordered tubes of Mastik 1 glue from the BikeBasar.de link above (used Bing translator to navigate through the German text), ordered the Acetone (for degreasing rims and braking surface) linked above from ebay, ordered some glue brushes from Amazon and I’ll order Schwalbe Glue Remover later if needed. Hopefully the white spirits I have might work for any glue removal required. I’ve seen people mention that household petrol also works, but I’m not familiar with that product. I have some Gunk Engine Degreasant (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_255222)that I find works very well as a chain cleaner – any chance that’d work well for removing glue from the rims (though as said on this thread, I’ll try just add a new layer of glue as opposed to removing glue unless necessary)?

I have some Lezyne valve extenders (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/lezyne-valve-extender-70mm/
- think they’re 70mm) – will these work with Veloflex Arenbergs and do I need to buy new valve cores or a valve core remover tool? From what I’ve read on this thread, it seems I can remove the valve core with a long-nose pliers, put the valve extender upside-down onto the Arenberg valve and then reinstall the valve core with some plumber’s PTFE tape over the threads. To be honest though, I’m not really clear on whether the valves and tubs I have will work for that or what to do, so it’d be good to get some reassurance on that rather than get delayed later by finding I need to go buy something else.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 569
Location: it's raining, it must be uk
i usually use conti extenders which come with a core tool, i'd imagine the lezyne would too, if not pliers are fine

if the bit of the extender that screws into the tyre doesn't have any kind of sealing ring then probably best to add some ptfe tape, but the ones i've got always had a sealing ring on them, valve cores usually have a sealing ring, shouldn't need to add tape

do the extenders and cores up *tight*, otherwise if you use a screw-on pump head they could come loose

but bear in mind no matter how good the extender/core seals are, tubs have latex tubes that will lose 1-2bar pressure within a day anyway

for 'household petrol' uk names would be white gas, aka coleman fuel, you'll find it in shops that do trekking/climbing supplies, it will certainly remove glue, be *very* careful about ventilation and potential ignition sources - i still remember the huge plume of flame when i thought i'd try priming my lovely new stove indoors, it was years ago but the memory is strong!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Posts: 1744
Location: Canada
Hi,

My 23 mm Vittoria Corsa EVO SC tubulars have two layers of glue and what appears like a mix of road grime, dirt and chainlube on each sides (3 mm wide), thanks to too wide Velocity Major Tom rims.

What's the best way to wash that dark grey layer from the basetape before gluing them back on another rim ?

Thanks for your input.

Louis :)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4479
Location: Canada
@Oh Pinchy, don't get too hung-up on the particulars of the products we use (save and except for the glue itself). The procedure is what is important here. It is important to clean the rim well before gluing. Acetone, alcohol, whatever. Use multiple, thin layers of glue on rim and tape over several days. Stretch the tire down well. That's it, really.

With respect to the valve extenders, you can use a multi-spoke tool to pull the core and reinstall it. Your process for installation is perfect. Just be sure to put the Teflon tape on both sides of the system (the extender and the core). Make sure that you don't gum-up the core with the Teflon. Once you get the valve extenders on, make sure that you re-install your completed system on your stretching rims to test it well (a couple of days). It is better to find out now that your valve system leaks, than after you have spent a lot of time and effort gluing-up the tire.

Louis, I don't think that there is any product that can get a petroleum-based product out of a cotton basetape. How bad is it? Let's see a pic. You might be ok to run it anyway, or maybe you can cut-out the contaminated portion.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Posts: 1744
Location: Canada
This is the front tubular, it doesn't have the "chainlube dirt", only a little road grime/dirt on some spots.
Sorry for the horribe quality pics, only device I found is my daughter's older Iphone :

Image

I used a toothbrush and some white spirit to take off what was on the rear tubular yesterday. After that, I used some acetone to take the residue off. I just wonder if the chemicals will all dissipate, if it'll affect the bonding quality

Image

Louis :)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5088
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
LouisN wrote:
I used a toothbrush and some white spirit to take off what was on the rear tubular yesterday. After that, I used some acetone to take the residue off. I just wonder if the chemicals will all dissipate, if it'll affect the bonding quality
Regarding bonding quality, you should worry not only about the basetape to rim bonding, but also the basetape to tire bonding. I have seen more basetapes roll off tires than I have tires off rims. Fortunately (for me), these were all observations of other riders rolling, as I have never done so myself.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:21 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5793
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Always try to avoid the use of solvents on a base tape.
It's a tissue, it absorbs and transfers these solvents to whatever the manufacturer has used to bond this base tape to the casing.

View using such solvents as cleaning a rim to get rid of old cement residues but through a cloth based filter if you like.
The effect is slower, hidden from the naked eye, yet it is still there. IOW a time bomb.

Quite often I receive PMs asking me this or that about what tubular to use for training etc. While I know of a few decent tubulars that are relatively cheap and yet quite race worthy, most cheap tubulars are just plain junk in every respect of the word.
Especially, and this is key, when it comes to the bond between the base tape and its casing.

In a nutshell they're a false economy, a safety hazard. Heck, the entire concept of training whilst using different arms than when you go to a proper battle rings false.
Train harder not cheaper. :wink:

Sorry about the diversion. It's really one of these never ending circular topics.....

@Louis, le grand chef canadien: Instead of using solvents, don't be afraid to use a hard nylon brush or even a spin in the washing machine at low temp to remove some of that dirt will do less harm than soaking it with, well you know....
We all know the misses won't like it because the misses won't understand. So, explain it.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:17 pm
Posts: 864
Location: Hamar, Norway
I glued my first Conti GP4000s yesterday. !&%#!!!
Owner ordered to buy workable tires next time. Veloflex, preferrably.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:58 am
Posts: 111
I've removed the tubs from my carbon rims for truing. How should I remove old glue from my rim before reglueing my tubes? How many layers of glue should I apply if I leave the old glue?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 569
Location: it's raining, it must be uk
short answer, read this thread

long answer, reaaaaaaaaad thiiiiiiiiiis threaaaaaaaaaad

these are all the references to 'glue', search.php?keywords=glue&t=72309&sf=msgonly" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seriously, it's worth reading, by the end you'll have gained a feel for what works, what doesn't, and what's argued about

otherwise, schwalbe glue remover or white spirit, acetone for final degrease, vittoria mastik one, 3 coats rim, 2 coats tyre, but that doesn't explain why

:-)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:38 pm
Posts: 19
So my wheels are now awaiting collection in the postal depot and I have my glue, brushes, acetone, tires and valve extenders all ready to get to work. I’ve noticed that the Lezyne valve extenders have very, very narrow openings at the top and it doesn’t look to be removable.

My understanding was to do the following: 1. remove valve core from tire; 2. Wrap tire valve in PTFE tape; 3. Screw valve extender onto tire valve (using the PTFE tape to get it airtight); 4. Wrap valve core threads in PTFE tape; 5. Screw valve core into the top of the valve extender; 6: inflate tire for a day to ensure no pressure loss before putting on the rim and glueing.

The purpose for the above that I’d gleaned from reading this full thread was to ensure you have the option of injecting sealant by removing the valve core at the top of the valve extender (i.e. so there’s no blockage at the valve core being in the original position on the tire valve itself) and to ensure air tightness. I’m not sure the Lezyne valve extenders allow adding the valve core to the top of them – should I just get different valve extenders (any particular ones to go for if so)? I have one other valve extender that has a wide hole at the top but no internal threads – if I was to wrap the valve core in PTFE tape and insert it into that opening, it wouldn’t be screwed into place, but would the tape hold it securely? Is this what people generally do?

That’s the last thing to get figured out before I can get stuck in, I’ll apply first thin coat of glue to the rims tonight.

I was in a DIY store and saw some Mastik Adhesive Cleaner for a fiver so I picked it up – anyone tried this and know if it’ll remove Mastik One glue from rims? I’ll probably put some glue on a test material and see if it works, but just wanted to check if anyone had experience with it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 569
Location: it's raining, it must be uk
the lezyne extenders look like the type that goes over the existing core/valve - i.e. you leave valve undone and screw the extender over the top

if you needed to inject something like tufo sealant on the road, it'd be a real bugger as the core would be in the way and still inaccessible if you took off the extender, even with pitstop you'd still have the core at the bottom of a tube full of hardening sealant

tbh i prefer extenders like the conti ones where you remove the core, fit the extender, then screw the core onto the end of the extender, then it's easy to remove if you need to get sealant in there

i'd be wary of that cleaner, sounds like the stuff used to remove plumber's mastic, sealant etc., you'd need to find what the ingredients are and check it's not going to harm the resin in the cf rims


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
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Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
OhPinchy wrote:
6: inflate tire for a day to ensure no pressure loss before putting on the rim and glueing.
Given that you plan to use Veloflex Arenberg or Carbon, which have latex tubes, you should expect some non-trivial pressure reduction over the course of a day due to the porous nature of latex, even if the valve extender is applied in an essentially leak-proof manner. But this pressure reduction should not be significantly more than occurs without the valve extender.


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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:44 pm 


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