Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

[Geoff]

Definitely interesting, isn't it! I guess they need to try something. I mean, look at this thread! There is obviously a big market to be served by getting non-tubular riders to convert. If I hadn't grown-up riding tubulars and was just starting today, I'd probably question the choice, too. By simplifying the gluing process, they eliminate the biggest barrier to entry.

Cycling is a pretty 'traditional' sport. It will be interesting to see if people convert. I'm pretty happy with Mastik 1, so it won't be me, initially. I guess I'll have to try it and report back, though

[zuza]

On Velonews site there is an update from Leonnard Zinn on using Effetto Mariposa Carogna tape for glueing XC tires.
Very interesting. There is also a link for a video from him applying this tape on it.

[strobbekoen]

That tape is interesting too! Seems to have some benefits, not sure about the contra's though.
Finally some new interesting products for glueing. Worth a try and find out.

[jrz1]

This is very impressive. I am very eager to hear reports of actual users. If I read the closed captioning on that video correctly it already has been used by pros in races? If so, that would seem to verify it as "proven".... I am wondering however, about the claimed 20 gram weight savings over traditionally glued tires. 20 grams? Wow, that is allot of glue per tire. Even if it is talking about two tires that would be allot.

[fdegrove]

Hi,

How many grams of rim cement do you think are on that rim using normal rim cement?

With all due respect, most don't seem to understand what exactly the function is of rim cement and why it is formulated the way it is.

Again, in all modesty, I have given away secrets of what pro riders use. What you can do to minimize rolling resistance and how you should store tubs etc.

I even hinted on how you could compromise between the two extremes.

AFAIK, anything else is just commercial hype so go ahead with that if you're that gullible to marketing ploys. Or too lazy to use your own hands,. Whatever.

Best to all of you,

[helldiver]

I glued my tubular tires yesterday with the new Vittoria magic mastik glue. It was the first time ever I glued the tubulars (Vittoria corsa SL 24mm), but i had very good experience with the product, almost no odor, the glue is absolutely transparent even when dry and you can easily clean the residues from brake-track/tires with soap water when the glue is still wet.
I used one 12ml cartridge per wheel (Campagnolo Bora 2015), first with the applicator tip, then brushing the glue layer evenly on the rim just with my finger till it was covered with a solid layer of glue.
The bond seems to be very strong now, i still have to do some proper mountain ride with lot of high speed descents and braking, but i have no doubts. The only question which remains open is whether it will be still possible to carry spare tubular pre-glued with magic mastik ready to be used in the case of puncture, i will do that with tufo elite jet tire pre-glued and sealed in vacuum bag (i have a kitchen vacuum sealer at my disposal) and post my experience once i will puncture, hopefully it won't be soon .

[fdegrove]

Hi,

Very interesting.
So it's no longer a contact type adhesive, dries in about half the time as Mastik One. Is easy to remove (what with?) and saves about 40g of weight compared to a typical rim cement.

Going from what Vittoria writes about and by helldiver's description it's a glue once affair. So that means it probably won't be any good to prep a spare tyre with.
Which in turn begs the question whether or not this new glue "accepts" a tyre prepped with a typical cement at all.
If not a tape may be the answer.
Needs to be tested with care though....

Cheers,

[commfire]

Very interested in this. Would you double up for a cx tubular?

[HammerTime2]

... you can easily clean the residues from brake-track/tires with soap water when the glue is still wet.

If you wash glue off the tire sidewall, is there any risk that the glue bond between tire base tape and rim will be negatively impacted?

... saves about 40g of weight compared to a typical rim cement.

This new application process even reduces the total weight of applied adhesive by roughly 20 grams because of the single layer application.

We all know that some Italian cycling goods manufacturers tend to be rather "optimistic" on reported weights. But Vittoria has done even Deda Elementi one better. Considering that dried glue from a Mastik One glue job should weigh less than 20g per wheel, Magic Mastik must add NEGATIVE net weight to the wheel. Either it has a negative weight when dry, or it pulls weight (moisture?) out of the tire in order to achieve this incredible accomplishment. On second thought, it does say "applied adhesive", not dried applied adhesive, so maybe this is a claimed weight savings when applied, not a lesser weight savings when dried. Making a guess that 12 ml of Magic Mastik weighs ~12g (same density as water) before drying,, the 20 g savings per wheel on an applied, not dried, basis could be achieved vs. ~32 g of Mastik One, which comes in 30 g tubes. So there could be an ~18 g savings vs. using a whole tube of Mastik One per wheel. But likely less of a savings on a dried basis. Dried weight is what should count for WW.

Benefits of Magic Mastik:
...
Adds less weight per tire (only 20 grams per tire)

Well, it seems that Viittoria is now toning down the claim.

[dj97223]

The video on the Vittoria page claims it is "self-centering." Now THAT is intriguing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u11zQTMv1Bs

[th8410]

So I had my first go at gluing up a set last night, and everything went pretty well (thanks to the content in this thread) except one of the tires doesn't want to center properly. The area is directly opposite the valve, so the last 5-8cm of the tire to be seated. I thought that the glue may have dried too quickly and was too tacky to readjust so I pulled off the section, reapplied a small amount of glue and re-seated the tire. Its better, but not perfect like the front which I had no problems with.

I followed the standard procedure
I stretched tires over the rim at 140psi for 3 days
apply 3 coats on each rim and one on the tires, 24 hours between each coat
apply a final coat on the rim before mounting the tire.
I put load on the tire to try and get it to seat but it wouldnt budge.

I guess my question is, am I better off removing the whole tire and starting again or is it ok to just pull off a section to readjust when its not perfect? Should i reapply another layer of glue to cure for 24hrs or will a single "mounting layer" suffice?

[Geoff]

That sounds pretty good. I prefer to put the last layer of 'fresh' glue on the basetape itself, as opposed to the rim. I personally think the tire centres better.

With respect to whether or not you need to re-do the whole tire if you dismount it, it really comes-down to how good the original glue adhered. If you pull the tire and the glue remaining on the rim is nice and even (as opposed to patchy, with sections pulling-off the rim bed and attaching itself to the basetape), then you should be good to re-glue the tire by just applying glue to the basetape and letting that cure.

Whether or not you need to re-glue the tire if it isn't 'perfect', is a call you need to make yourself based upon how 'off' it is. We all strive for perfection, but it is not really that crucial to be perfectly straight on the rim...

[th8410]

Whether or not you need to re-glue the tire if it isn't 'perfect', is a call you need to make yourself based upon how 'off' it is. We all strive for perfection, but it is not really that crucial to be perfectly straight on the rim...

Thanks for the reply Geoff,
In the end I decided to pull the tire off and start again as the glue was a bit patchy on the rim.
Interestingly the glue had bonded a lot better in places where the rim had been sanded a little rougher. I don't think it would have effected the tire bonding to the rim however the glue was definitely reusable in these spots and patchier where it wasn't as well sanded.
If I had read your post beforehand I probably would have left it, but because the other wheel went on so well I thought I must have stuffed up somehow.
I also read on another forum that tubulars aren't recommended for the OCD

[Geoff]

One of the very few studies that I am aware of regarding the gluing of tubular tires dispels the myth that it is the roughening of the rim that causes better adhesion of the glue. Accordingly, I believe that the real key to preparing the rim properly is to make sure that all the oils are off of it. I believe that the reason people sand rims and find that it works better is that doing so really gets the oils off the rim. When you don't do that, sometimes the mold release compounds are still present.

[Calnago]

Campy, with respect to their latest Boras, states exactly that. They say to sand the rims lightly to remove the mold release agents and any residue. It's a one time thing.