Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

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11.4
Posts: 1095
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 am

by 11.4

The S3 Lite is really an old-fashioned road tire with very good anti-puncture protection. Tufo created this tire when everyone was still riding 21-23 mm tires. It's very tough, rather high rolling resistance, but it does pack very small and light because it doesn't have regular stitching on the rim side. If you need a fairly light and compact tire to get you home safely, it's a good choice. Even better is a cheaper Tufo, the S3 Pro. It's one of the few Tufos that actually ride half-way decently, it lasts forever, and does a decent job holding on track bankings as well. There are people who like to use the ultralight Tufo track tires (120-130 gram tires) as spares, and they definitely are very light and compact, but there's no puncture protection there and it's not too hard to get a second puncture on them.

Sticking the glued surfaces together shouldn't create the problem you describe here unless you did it before the tire was completely dry. It will always stick a bit, but should be easy to pull apart when you need the tire.

The Podium is a lightweight tire with a tread rather known for cutting. It's a decent performer, but not as durable or damage-resistant as a tubular like the Conti Competition. I wouldn't have recommended it for a new tubular user (nor wold I have recommended the S3 Lite).

by Weenie


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TurboTommy
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:32 pm

by TurboTommy

Hi all

I'm still relatively new to the world of tubs but this thread is an excellent resource so thanks very much. I've mounted 4 tubs in total, slowly getting better / picking up little tricks, but it's a work in progress.

So far I've been using conti competition tubs. I understand they have a reputation for being harder to mount than some others? I can mount them ok But while doing so I find getting some glue on the sidewalls of the tub unavoidable. I then find it hard to remove the access glue afterwards. I'm not sure acetone is the best option. Is there a trick I'm missing?

Apologies if this is a basic question or it's been asked before...

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Acetone is kind of useless for removing glue. Use it to clean off oily residue etc but to clean off some "overglue" use something like Goof-Off but be careful of decals etc. No trickery involved.
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fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
Posts: 5894
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Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

To remove rim cement any kind of petrol such as diesel fuel, lamp oil etc. works fine as all rim cements I know of are petrol based chemicals.

Cheers, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

TurboTommy
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:32 pm

by TurboTommy

Thanks for the responses guys. Yes sorry I meant run cement. Just out of interest why acetone on the rims themselves but diesel on the tubs? I'm probably missing something obvious here...

Geoff
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

+1. Acetone is great for cleaning the remaining solvent off of a rim, or cleaning mould release compound off the rim bed prior to gluing, but it does not seem to work well for the cleaning of excess glue. I think that it flashes-off too fast. The better choice is household paint thinner (mineral spirits). As Calnago says, I have also had good luck with a product called 'Goof-Off', which is way more aggressive, so use it outside and with nitrile gloves. You can get it anywhere.

TurboTommy
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:32 pm

by TurboTommy

Ah cool. Thanks again for the responses.

stormur
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: FIN

by stormur

Best answer to clean old/ unwanted glue ( at any amount ) is Xylene :) this thing stink like crazy, so better do it outside... and in mask.

Goo-Off is mix od acetone and xylene, so you can make it home ;)
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

11.4
Posts: 1095
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 am

by 11.4

Bottom line is, the better the solvent is at removing old rim cement, the more likely it is to soften the resin in your carbon fiber and definitely to destroy any decals or stickers. Toluene is possibly the best solvent for rim cement, hands down, but it'll eat just about anything on your bike, even softening paint, and it's toxic to humans as well if you don't work outside and wear nitrile gloves.

Since this topic keeps coming up, it's worth reminding that many of these solvent solutions (most commercial adhesive removers, paint removers, even mineral spirits) consist of a broad range of fractions from a distillery. As a result, some of the compounds are perfectly volatile and evaporate (flash off) completely, while others have light oil components that stay and interfere with your next glue job. This is why it always pays to do a final vigorous scrub with a clean rag and some acetone. Of these solvents, acetone is also pretty much the least harmful to humans, evaporates fast so ti doesn't stick around to soften resins or paint, and at least the acetone disappears completely from rags so you don't have to deal with spontaneous combustion (if you use any solvents, assume that the rags or towels, including paper towels, will be prone to internal heat generation and burst into flames, so never leave them in a garage or anywhere that a fire would be an issue; don't leave them in a pile or a closed container either; just leave them spread out somewhere outside until they are ready to be picked up by your garbage service).

I haven't had particularly good luck with xylene. It's a wood-based solvent and while it softens rim cement a bit, there are better choices. It also is completely immiscible with water, so you have to get it off your rims completely with acetone and lots of scrubbing. And by the way, it'll eat your brake blocks in a hurry if it gets in contact with them. And the Goof-Off that I use doesn't contain xylene.

Last, if you have mold release compound on your carbon rims (and I'd include in that extrusion lubricants on alloy rims, since the lubricants are often similar), I've never trusted any solvent to remove them completely. It's always worth taking some fine-grit carbide paper (320 or 400 grit works fine) and sand the gluing surfaces on the rims. You are only taking off a trace layer of resin and no carbon, but removing the layer that the lubricant or release compound is adhered to. Your glue doesn't need the surface roughened up by the sandpaper, but getting any trace contaminant off the rim is important. Thankfully the rim manufacturers are getting better at cleaning up their rims prior to shipment so this is more of a precaution than a necessity, but it can save you a messy removal and regluing job if a rim didn't get the prep work.

TurboTommy
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:32 pm

by TurboTommy

Interesting stuff

Since my original post I did a small amount of reading. As I understand it zipp only recommend using goof off and / or acetone To remove cement. I bought my 303's pre owned so less concerned by voiding a warranty but still interested in manufacturer recommendations up to a point. Unfortunately living in the uk, it seems 'goof off' isn't available, so open to trying suggested alternatives.

sungod
Posts: 1702
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm

by sungod

as i read it, you're trying to remove glue from the tubs, not the rim itself

if it's fresh glue, try acetone on a rough cloth and scrub hard

this certainly works on brake tracks, i mounted a tub this afternoon and used it to clean a couple of spots where i was careless with the brush

big dollops of glue are another matter, but you can probably scrape most off with a fingernail

stormur
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: FIN

by stormur

11.4 wrote:Bottom line is, the better the solvent is at removing old rim cement, the more likely it is to soften the resin in your carbon fiber and definitely to destroy any decals or stickers. Toluene is possibly the best solvent for rim cement, hands down, but it'll eat just about anything on your bike, even softening paint, and it's toxic to humans as well if you don't work outside and wear nitrile gloves.

Since this topic keeps coming up, it's worth reminding that many of these solvent solutions (most commercial adhesive removers, paint removers, even mineral spirits) consist of a broad range of fractions from a distillery. As a result, some of the compounds are perfectly volatile and evaporate (flash off) completely, while others have light oil components that stay and interfere with your next glue job. This is why it always pays to do a final vigorous scrub with a clean rag and some acetone. Of these solvents, acetone is also pretty much the least harmful to humans, evaporates fast so ti doesn't stick around to soften resins or paint, and at least the acetone disappears completely from rags so you don't have to deal with spontaneous combustion (if you use any solvents, assume that the rags or towels, including paper towels, will be prone to internal heat generation and burst into flames, so never leave them in a garage or anywhere that a fire would be an issue; don't leave them in a pile or a closed container either; just leave them spread out somewhere outside until they are ready to be picked up by your garbage service).

I haven't had particularly good luck with xylene. It's a wood-based solvent and while it softens rim cement a bit, there are better choices. It also is completely immiscible with water, so you have to get it off your rims completely with acetone and lots of scrubbing. And by the way, it'll eat your brake blocks in a hurry if it gets in contact with them. And the Goof-Off that I use doesn't contain xylene.

Last, if you have mold release compound on your carbon rims (and I'd include in that extrusion lubricants on alloy rims, since the lubricants are often similar), I've never trusted any solvent to remove them completely. It's always worth taking some fine-grit carbide paper (320 or 400 grit works fine) and sand the gluing surfaces on the rims. You are only taking off a trace layer of resin and no carbon, but removing the layer that the lubricant or release compound is adhered to. Your glue doesn't need the surface roughened up by the sandpaper, but getting any trace contaminant off the rim is important. Thankfully the rim manufacturers are getting better at cleaning up their rims prior to shipment so this is more of a precaution than a necessity, but it can save you a messy removal and regluing job if a rim didn't get the prep work.



It contain xylene : https://hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/househo ... id=7015003

Xylene , same as acetone is recommended by Zipp, if that is some recommendation for you. Xylene DO NOT affect composite resin.

I had rims to clean, where acetone work would take weeks, not days or hours. With Xylene it took 4h for two rims. It works like a charm, not "a bit " Acetone worked "a bit" or even less.

What's a problem to wipe off rims at the end with acetone ? 2-3 minutes ???
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
Posts: 5894
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

[/Xylene , same as acetone is recommended by Zipp, if that is some recommendation for you.quote]

Recommended for doing what exactly ?

Acetone and Xylene are definitely not the same.
No idea about Xylene (I avoid it due to its high toxicity) but acetone is useless to dissolve rim cement. You just use it to degrease etc.

I had rims to clean, where acetone work would take weeks, not days or hours. With Xylene it took 4h for two rims. It works like a charm, not "a bit " Acetone worked "a bit" or even less.


No surprise there. Using simple household petrol and a rag you should be able to clean a rim in half an hour once you get the hang of it.
Another product that works fine is Schwalbe's rim cement remover. Just let it work for you and wipe off the stuff and voila, clean rim.

Cheers, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

stormur
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: FIN

by stormur

I already ordered Schwalbe remover. But delivery to where I live ( from UK or Germany ) takes usually longer than to USA :mrgreen: I haven't such time to waist ;)
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



TurboTommy
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:32 pm

by TurboTommy

I've read more on tubs in the last 2 days than the rest of my life combined!

Are any of you guys familier with "effetto carogna" tape? I know tub tape might be a dirty word to some people but it seems to make sense with regards covering a wider area of the rim than tufo and its thickness of glue allowing it to spread out more. I know enough to take website reviews with a pinch of salt so I'm wondering if anyone has first hand experience of it.

Cheers

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