Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

[petepeterson]

Thanks for the comments on aging Geoff - I was riding the Sea to Sky highway which is a beautiful ride but also a busy highway that gets a lot of debris and glass on it. I always worry about flats when riding on hwys and always try to scan the road ahead to avoid things. Is that what you mean by riding style?

[fdegrove]

Hi,

but conti/similar where the rubber is vulcanized, it doesn't make a difference

Basically, any tyre will benefit up to a point. Key is to keep them In a dry U.V. light free area.

On the subject of aging tires, I have found that it is not so much dependent on any set time, but on the condition of the tire. When a 'hand-made' tire is 'ready', you will be able to see it clearly. The 'white' of the sidewall will appear yellowed or even amber in colour and the tread itself will form a 'patina' that will appear slightly brown, or even rust-coloured. The combination of the complete curing of the glues used in the construction of the tire and the hardening of the tread rubber itself seems to help the puncture-resistance of the tire.

My, O my, sheer CA poetry... May I add a maple leaf and a snow flake or two.

Romancing the tubular,

[kfreytag]

Responding to a question posed some pages ago re: getting glue on the braking surface and questioning whether it needs to be removed before riding or whether braking will simply scrape it away:

First, good answer was given (clean it off or you'll glaze your pads).

Second, it made me think of perhaps my favorite "trick" when gluing tubulars.

Before you start laying glue down on the rim, tape up the braking surfaces with electrical tape. Any overzealous application of glue (or mishaps while installing the tire) will defile the tape instead of your rim:



When you're done, just peel and go. It leaves no residue.

[Geoff]

@petepeterson, Sea-to-Sky? As in, Vancouver? I never noticed glass there, but I have only been on it a couple of times. What a shame. I love riding in your Stanley Park. Perfect tubular country!

Frank, *sniff* I just love tubulars! How is your summer going?

On the idea of using electric tape to protect against glue on the rim, that is a pretty good idea for starting out. Once you have done it a couple of times, you won't need it, as you will get very little glue on the rim, anyway. If you do get the odd blob, a little paint thinner will make short work of it.

[petepeterson]

Yes Geoff - I find the debris varies on the sea to sky through the year.

Stanley Park - The perfect start and finish to most of my rides as I live downtown Vancouver.

[neeb]

Glueing my first ever tubulars...

I've read up a lot and think I know what I'm doing, but there's a couple of points I'd like to ask about. Apologies if these have been covered somewhere in the past 184 pages...

I'm using Schwalbe Ultremo HT tubs, Reynolds 46 wheels and Mastik'One glue. I've just applied the first layer of glue to the rims and tyre base tape and am leaving these 24 hours before applying the next layer.

Applying the glue was more difficult than I anticipated, because this Mastik stuff seems to be extremely viscous... I'm using a new tin and a small paint brush. It seems that the glue wants to go stringy and lumpy as soon as it comes out of the tin, so spreading it thinly and evenly is tricky... I've got a pretty good even layer on the rim, but I'm worried that the layer I have on the tyre base tape isn't so great. The base tape is the cloth type and because the glue is so viscous it's difficult to get the base tape looking completely saturated.

When I'm applying the next layer, should I really ladle the stuff on to make sure the base tape is sufficiently saturated?

I was applying the glue out of doors to avoid inhaling the fumes too much, but I'm wondering if the lower air temperature is making things more difficult by making the glue more viscous...

[sungod]

maybe you're not going fast enough or using too small a brush, the glue goes tacky in just a few seconds

fwiw i use disposable flux brushes, about 10-15mm width, enough glue on it to do around 10-12cm at a time, not sure if that's best, but it works for me

the tape doesn't need to be saturated, just coated

for the rim, some people put glue in a large syringe or a squeezy bottle with a nozzle, with the wheel on a stand quickly squirt a bead along the centre, then use a gloved finger or a brush to spread it

[neeb]

Thanks - yes, I think sometimes I'm not going fast enough.

Applied the second coat today and tried the syringe (well, a cake decorating squeezy thing) and gloved finger approach - definitely easier, although a little messy...

This mastik glue is the most awkward and messy stuff I have ever worked with, like a cross between treacle and superglue! Pouring it into the syringe thing was a nightmare...

I've got plenty of the stuff on at least, even if it's not that even in places...

[neeb]

P.S. So far, the 2 coats of glue have added about 5 or 6g weight to each wheel, and about the same or slightly more to the tubes (after the second coat has dried for 6 hours)... Does that sound about right?

[Geoff]

Getting many, thin, even layers down on the rim and the basetape is the key to a good glue job. In order to do this, I would recommend that you apply glue with your finger, versus a brush. Just wrap your finger with a piece of heavy-duty poly or a heavy plastic bag. If you are really wanting to use a brush, you can also use an old toothbrush instead of an acid brush. The short bristles will work well with getting the glue out of the tin.

You need to get the glue nice and even. Again, that is the key. Weight? I have never weighed the glue I put down before. It should really just be a 'film' of glue going down on the rim. The idea is to let it go down thin enough so it cures completely overnight before the next layer goes down. If you just blob-on some thick layers that do not cure before you throw the tire on, the glue at the bottom will not cure properly and you will have weak spots in your glue job. Will it cure eventually? Probably. Hell, the whole tin will turn solid if you leave it long enough. The question is: do you want to risk waiting while you are riding the wheel?

Syringe? Really? if you aren't gluing a whole ton of wheels, you can use the tubes (like your syringe idea, only easier )

[neeb]

Syringe? Really? if you aren't gluing a whole ton of wheels, you can use the tubes (like your syringe idea, only easier )

Yup, next time I will definitely get the tubes... The tin is a nightmare. The most difficult part of the whole process has been getting the glue from the tin onto the rims/tyres... Brushes become solid after a minute or so, it "strings" like mozzarella and the consistency of the stuff makes transferring it from one receptacle to another an utter PITA. And once you have opened it, the lid never seems to stay on properly again. I have hammered it down but it still creeps off unless I leave a 10kg dumbell on top of it...

Would still be interested to hear if others have weighed new wheels & tyres before and after gluing and what the weight difference was. I have seen estimates in various places ranging from 2g to 40g.. (!!).

[fdegrove]

hi,

Brushes become solid after a minute or so, it "strings" like mozzarella and the consistency of the stuff makes transferring it from one receptacle to another an utter PITA.

It sounds as if the cement you're using is too old (i.e. either stored for too long or the can wasn't properly closed?).
I've used tin and tubes without any problems but unless you're a pro mounting tubs for a team, I'd advise to go with the smaller tubes.
A single tube should suffice for a set of wheels.

If you're using an acid brush (as I do) , make sure it's almost as wide as the rim bed of the wheel so you can cover the entire width with a single stroke.

Would still be interested to hear if others have weighed new wheels & tyres before and after gluing and what the weight difference was. I have seen estimates in various places ranging from 2g to 40g.. (!!).

A single tube of Mastik One contains about 20g of cement. As the cement hardens (it outgasses) it loses weight.
My guess is about 5g per wheel once the cement is fully cured.

Ciao ,

[neeb]

Well, the tyres are on! I made a bit of a mess of the sidewalls because I was worried about the final "activating" layer of glue drying before I had got the tyres positioned, so I didn't wait until the glue had become tacky enough to avoid being messy. They are pretty much straight although there is a slight up-and-down wobble, I guess because I didn't stretch them quite hard enough away from the valve when I was fitting them.. It's pretty difficult to pull them hard without getting your hands covered in glue from the rim! But again, maybe I should have waited 5 mins before fitting them after applying the 3rd layer of glue...

I'm hoping the slight out-of-roundness isn't going to be a major issue - I guess it's only a couple of millimetres.

[sungod]

i found glue-free fingers etc. came with practice

fwiw immediately after fitting, with the tyre still deflated you can go around the rim squishing the tyre into the rim with thumbs to help get rid of any air pockets, then inflate to maximum and roll out the full circumference with your weight on it - i straddle the wheel and pushing on the top with hands can do about 15-20cm at a time this way

you still have another first to come...

the first time i removed glue from a rim was, in retrospect, hilarious, i got so much on my hands that not only were my fingers getting glued firmly together, i couldn't put down things that i picked up, just like in cartoons

since them i discovered schwalbe glue remover, pure luxury

[neeb]

you still have another first to come...

The most important first I still have to come is riding them tonight!

And then there is the first puncture on the road. Dreading that one. Of course ideally you would practice removing the tyres at home, but no way am I going to be trying to take the things off until I have to...

since them i discovered schwalbe glue remover, pure luxury

Duly noted!