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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:31 pm 
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Posts: 1210
Location: Israel
RedRacer wrote:
Rounding up the last bits for my build.

Can I buy sub 1300g clinchers that will hold up to everyday abuse under a 190lb rider who only rides 2000 miles/YR? If they last me four years I will be happy. I am normally gentle of wheelsets if it matters :lol: Oh, and I want to keep it under $1000.

Am I crazy or :?:



O had a pair of AMERICAN CLASSIC MAGNESIUM 1245 gr which I used as trainning wheels just to see how long they last. mine were with sappim spokes

they lasted over a year.
good wheels!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:47 pm 
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WWotY 2007
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Location: France.
beatnik wrote:
I mean that these hubs aren´t low friction hubs. Make your own test with a chronometer and you will see ;)


Extralite hubs are pretty smooth, fluid and low friction. It is actually often better than Tune or DT hubs (depending on the series).

Since there are only 2 or 3 61803 bearings, with a good preload adjustement system, the friction simply can't be high. You should probably think about considering bigger series. Your one is certainly tighter than usually, the bearings might have been bad mounted?

The only disadvantage of Extralite is the rotor that creates a lot of drag. However it has nothing to do with the friction and I can tell you the hubs are really butter smooth as long as you pedal.
If you stop pedaling, then yes, you will be slowed down quicker than with Tune or DT hubs for example. But after all, if you stop pedaling, you very certainly need to reduce your speed, right?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:48 pm 
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Danton wrote:
See here for some 1047g clincher wheels from Adrien at rouesartisanales, it's only in French at the moment...

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-14612824.html


Thanks for quoting me. I am doing the translation.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:41 pm 
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Location: People's Republic of Boulder
Adrien,
How did you score those Am Classic rims? Did you have to buy the whole wheel and toss the hubs?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:06 pm 
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Thanks Adrien, and the English version is there to read now at http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-14632113.html.

Adrien, you've presented us with the first wheelset and it's very light for any wheel set, yet alone some clinchers. But there's a paragraph missing: what about the performance of the wheels on the road? Will you be testing the rigidity on a bench, and reporting the "feel" too?

I know two other sets of lightweight wheels will be built, so perhaps we'll have a comparison of them?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:41 pm 
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@coloclimber: I had the chance to have some rims alone. Of course I didn't buy two complete wheelset for this.

@ Danton, the wheels are for a customer so I won't be able to ride them myself. However, from a mere technical and theorical point of view, their only disadvantage should be about lateral stiffness.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:51 am 
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Adrien wrote:
But after all, if you stop pedaling, you very certainly need to reduce your speed, right?


Usually... but when you are tucked and going 50+ mph this would suck.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:00 am 
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Location: New Jersey, USA
if im going 50+ mph i want to be slowed down!

but all freewheels can be adjusted inside the hub. Ive done it to shimano wheels, hope hubs, etc. i managed to make my shimano training wheel almost zero drag while coasting and it is virtually silent, whereas when it came on my bike it dragged a lot and was loud. i can imagine the extralites have some internal adjustability, or perhaps i am wrong and this adjustabilitry was sacrificed for utmost weight savings?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:53 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:16 am
Posts: 1343
Location: Lyon, France
Zeed wrote:
but all freewheels can be adjusted inside the hub.


How did you do this? It's not obvious to me how to adjust a pawl-type ratchet system, but maybe I'm just being thick?

I can imagine two source of hub to free-wheel friction:
1. The seal between the two. Not much you can do here except maybe look for a lower-friction material, or leave it out! I was surprised to see my speedcomposites hub has no seal... :shock:
2. The pawls have a very strong spring which makes them drag against the ratchet, making lots of friction and noise. It would be risky to try changing this, since the spring should have been chosen to ensure sufficiently fast engagement. If it is too weak, you might engage one pawl without the others, which with a big shove on the pedals could well break the freewheel. However a could low-friction lubricant would certainly help (not grease!)... ie some molybdenum disulphide wiped onto the ratchet, then some thin machine oil, maybe with some teflon additive as can be bought for car gearboxes.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:36 pm 
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Keep loosing watts, you are young ;)

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http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 8e319d185b


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 4038
Location: Natovi Landing
Adrien wrote:
beatnik wrote:
I mean that these hubs aren´t low friction hubs. Make your own test with a chronometer and you will see ;)


Extralite hubs are pretty smooth, fluid and low friction. It is actually often better than Tune or DT hubs (depending on the series).

Since there are only 2 or 3 61803 bearings, with a good preload adjustement system, the friction simply can't be high. You should probably think about considering bigger series. Your one is certainly tighter than usually, the bearings might have been bad mounted?

The only disadvantage of Extralite is the rotor that creates a lot of drag. However it has nothing to do with the friction and I can tell you the hubs are really butter smooth as long as you pedal.
If you stop pedaling, then yes, you will be slowed down quicker than with Tune or DT hubs for example. But after all, if you stop pedaling, you very certainly need to reduce your speed, right?


No. Drag while freewheeling most certainly is relevant. It's one of the reasons I didn't get on with an AM classic rear hub. Think about it, who uses less power, the guy with the draggy hub or the guy with DA/Record hub?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:37 pm 
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Location: Aix-les-Bains
Spinning a wheel in a jig doesn't count.

I could degrease my hubs and strip off the seals and the bearings would spin smooth on the workstand but it would be useless for riding, they need lubrication and protection. In other words, what looks nice in your hand can be a different story on the bike? By all means watch out for bad bearings and poor adjustment or lazy manufacturing tolerances but how many watts are being lost by a "slow" hub when you're riding on them, any answers?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:01 am 
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Posts: 1281
Location: Worcester, UK
sawyer wrote:
No. Drag while freewheeling most certainly is relevant. It's one of the reasons I didn't get on with an AM classic rear hub. Think about it, who uses less power, the guy with the draggy hub or the guy with DA/Record hub?

Only if you take part in coasting races!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:16 am
Posts: 1343
Location: Lyon, France
Erez_Pinarello wrote:

O had a pair of AMERICAN CLASSIC MAGNESIUM 1245 gr which I used as trainning wheels just to see how long they last. mine were with sappim spokes

they lasted over a year.
good wheels!


What happened after a year?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:36 pm 
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Posts: 192
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Apparently nothing :lol:


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