ENVE 4.5 SES - Spoke woes...

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
clipsed
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:48 pm

by clipsed

Hi guys,

Just wanted to discuss the issues 2017 has brought me with my ENVE 4.5 SES wheel with CK45 hubs (Cx-ray spokes).

As of this weekend, i have officially broken my 5th spoke in 11 months (rear wheel).

The first 3 breaks were repaired by ENVE (i had to pay the $40 shipping each time). Then they replaced the RIM and relaced the whole wheel (new spokes of course). Since then, i have broken an addition 2 spokes on the the newly rebuilt wheel...

The two recent breakages have occurred inside the wheel, at or just below the nipple. The previous ones were about 3/4 up the spoke.

Is this a common occurrence with this configuration? I ran zipp 303's for > 2 years with zero issue.

A few stats about me, i am 77kg with a max sprint power of ~ 1650w (Race A grade).

:( I will be selling these with much regret.. I am considering picking up a set of 303 NSW's that are going for a good price locally.

by Weenie


whosatthewheel
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:35 pm
Contact:

by whosatthewheel

Most spoke breakages are down to poor spoke tension, so I suspect this is your problem. You should return the wheel again and demand another rebuild, they should pay for delivery. Given these are "handbuilts" you should ask for a stronger build as well, so maybe using something like DT Swiss Aerocomp spokes.

Failing that, you should find a trustworthy builder to check all the tensions for you and possibly rebuild the wheel again... once they start popping, it means they are fatigued (due to low spoke tension) and it will keep happening

Marin
Posts: 2662
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Were the failures all on the left side?

clipsed
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:48 pm

by clipsed

Marin wrote:Were the failures all on the left side?


I can't quite remember the earlier ones, but the last 2 were definitely NDS.

clipsed
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:48 pm

by clipsed

whosatthewheel wrote:Most spoke breakages are down to poor spoke tension, so I suspect this is your problem. You should return the wheel again and demand another rebuild, they should pay for delivery. Given these are "handbuilts" you should ask for a stronger build as well, so maybe using something like DT Swiss Aerocomp spokes.

Failing that, you should find a trustworthy builder to check all the tensions for you and possibly rebuild the wheel again... once they start popping, it means they are fatigued (due to low spoke tension) and it will keep happening


I figured this could be the case, i doubt ENVE will fork up the cash to be honest.

I did call a reputable wheelbuilder that charges ~ $300 (AUD) for a full build and spokes. I am just feeling a bit dejected and might just sell.

whosatthewheel
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:35 pm
Contact:

by whosatthewheel

clipsed wrote:
I figured this could be the case, i doubt ENVE will fork up the cash to be honest.

I did call a reputable wheelbuilder that charges ~ $300 (AUD) for a full build and spokes. I am just feeling a bit dejected and might just sell.


It's a bit steep for rear only, bearing in mind it is less than an hour of work + 24 spokes and nipples. BUT, if it solves the problem (and it should solve the problem) then it's less money than you would lose by selling those (broken) and buying some new wheels.
Also, have you thought about using much cheaper round spokes at the rear? There is hardly any difference in terms of aerodynamics, given the rear is a very turbulent part of the bike

There is nothing wrong with Enve rims and possibly hubs... the problem here is a poor build quality

clipsed
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:48 pm

by clipsed

whosatthewheel wrote:
clipsed wrote:
I figured this could be the case, i doubt ENVE will fork up the cash to be honest.

I did call a reputable wheelbuilder that charges ~ $300 (AUD) for a full build and spokes. I am just feeling a bit dejected and might just sell.


It's a bit steep for rear only, bearing in mind it is less than an hour of work + 24 spokes and nipples. BUT, if it solves the problem (and it should solve the problem) then it's less money than you would lose by selling those (broken) and buying some new wheels.
Also, have you thought about using much cheaper round spokes at the rear? There is hardly any difference in terms of aerodynamics, given the rear is a very turbulent part of the bike

There is nothing wrong with Enve rims and possibly hubs... the problem here is a poor build quality


I have considered this, perhaps an aerocomp or cx-sprint rather than cx-ray spoke.

The nsw's are 2nd hand, and after i get the enve's fixed (spoke + tension from a different shop i actually trust) i could resell for a similar price to the nsws - so no money out of pocket for me there.

whosatthewheel
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:35 pm
Contact:

by whosatthewheel

clipsed wrote:
I have considered this, perhaps an aerocomp or cx-sprint rather than cx-ray spoke.


Those are still aero spokes... I was thinking in terms of Sapim Race or DT Comp. Given those hubs use J bend spokes, it should be all cheap as chips.

Typical UK price for such rebuild would be 20-25 GBP worth of spokes + another 25-40 GBP worth of labour

clipsed
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:48 pm

by clipsed

whosatthewheel wrote:
clipsed wrote:
I have considered this, perhaps an aerocomp or cx-sprint rather than cx-ray spoke.


Those are still aero spokes... I was thinking in terms of Sapim Race or DT Comp. Given those hubs use J bend spokes, it should be all cheap as chips.

Typical UK price for such rebuild would be 20-25 GBP worth of spokes + another 25-40 GBP worth of labour


maybe i have to call around! I do miss my old zipps :) i will let you know what i do..

User avatar
StradaJon
in the industry
Posts: 133
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:38 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

by StradaJon

Its a combination of a too thin spoke, poor spoke tensions and this is made worse by the R45 NDS flange which does not give good spoke tension to start with. Find a local builder with a calibrated spoke tension meter to remove the DS (at least) and swap for CX Sprint and re-tension the whole lot evenly. It's an easy fix.
Last edited by StradaJon on Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Strada Hand Built Wheels
http://www.stradawheels.co.uk

Marin
Posts: 2662
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

You should *keep* the thin spokes on the NDS, the fix is to use stiffer DS spokes!

You need the NDS spokes to be more elastic so they don't fully lose tension when the wheel is loaded.

Every full unloading of a spoke is a fatigue cycle, and the spokes that didn't break yet will probably also have done their share of cycles unless tension was very uneven.

Noctiluxx
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

How are the Enve 4.5's compared to your old Zipp Firecrest 303's? Few months ago my NSW 404's were replaced by Zipp for faulty hubs. Yes, bad Zipp hubs. My Campy Bora Ultra 50 rear wheel is currently at Campanolo for too much play. BTW when both wheels are running well, the Bora Ultras are the superior wheels.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Red)
2016 Specialized Allez DSW Sprint (Gold)
2016 Giant Anthem Advanced SX (FS)
2018 Trek Farley EX 9.8 Fatty (FS)
2017 Giant Toughroad (rigid 29er)

spdntrxi
Posts: 1420
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

I’ve broke 1 .. front wheel left side.. just past nipple. Actually just got the wheel back on Sunday . Hubs are extralite cyberhub SP

User avatar
Flyfishing3
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:58 pm
Location: Western Pa

by Flyfishing3

Snapped one in the back. Can’t remember the side. DT240 hub

by Weenie


pdlpsher1
Posts: 1413
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I’ve always liked 2:1 laced rear wheels with 21 spokes. I’ve never broken a 2:1 laced wheels (Shimano, Campy, and Fulcrum). 2:1 laced wheels all use heavy gauge spokes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post