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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:44 am 
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Hi,

I am wondering which would be best tire width for the rainy days in terms of aerodynamic...

My thinking would be as follows:
- Front: less water resistance as possible. So 23mm would be the best. Actually even if the water resistance is not that important compared to the drag the 23mm would remain the best choice as for a TT. (of course in terms of traction when cornering, a 25mm would be better)
- Rear: a good traction should be achieved, here especially because the water is reducing the traction. So either a 25mm or even a 28mm if there is enough clearance.

What do you think?


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Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:44 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:23 am 
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Rain tyres. :pImage

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:57 am 
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Well... the best tyre width in terms of aerodynamics in WET and DRY is 23mm indeed... So that doesn't matter.

The question is, do you want to ride 23mm in the rain. I'd prefer 25mm because of the increased grip, but more a rubber compound that is sticky.
Like the Schwalbe Durano's I've had or my just ordered Vittoria Rubino Pro Control.

Wheel aerodynamics is also a matter of the combination of tyre/rim (outer)width as you might know. So if you have wide rims, you will experience still good aerodynamics with wider tyres.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:34 am 
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Do you have a separate set of wheels you put on when it is raining? Or do you change tires when going out for a ride in the rain? Do you start a ride when it is raining? Most of my rain rides are because I started when it was dry, and there were not clouds in the sky saying it was going to start raining very shortly. And while riding, it started raining, bad luck. If its raining, I don't ride. Do you?

Rain can make roads slick. A wide front tire can help staying upright. Important. I've never spun a rear tire in the rain trying to accelerate. So rear width isn't too important. But a wider rear tire could help from sliding in corners.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:44 am 
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RussellS wrote:
Do you have a separate set of wheels you put on when it is raining? Or do you change tires when going out for a ride in the rain? Do you start a ride when it is raining? Most of my rain rides are because I started when it was dry, and there were not clouds in the sky saying it was going to start raining very shortly. And while riding, it started raining, bad luck. If its raining, I don't ride. Do you?

Rain can make roads slick. A wide front tire can help staying upright. Important. I've never spun a rear tire in the rain trying to accelerate. So rear width isn't too important. But a wider rear tire could help from sliding in corners.


As I was living in Europe the weather was like yours. But over here in Canada/ British Columbia we have quite a lot of rain.. :(
So basically during the winter it is usually raining. At least for my Saturday group ride it is almost always raining. Starting with the rain and sometimes if lucky then ending without rain. And we have also days with mixed weather and showers etc...

So far I had separate sets of wheels for dry 100%, rain 100% and mixed weather. But this year I will have a bike for 100% dry, a bike for 100% rain and a bike for mixed weather. The last two are or will be with disc brakes as they really offer more safety :thumbup:

I have now decided on the following:
For the 100% rain I will ride with 25/25mm Vittoria Open Pavé (and 19C rims)
For the mixed weather I will ride most probably 25/25mm Veloflex Corsa or 25/25mm vittoria Open Pavé (and 17C rims).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Location: Wet coast, Canada
As you know Tony I ride the same conditions as you, just a little further south and west of where you live (White Rock). The Vittoria Open Pave are good tires, they have a nice ride quality and they are reasonably puncture resistant without having awful ride quality. However, I do not find them to have the best traction in cornering or even climbing out of the saddle on steep pitches (10% or more). Other winter tires I have used included the Panaracer Gravel King in 700x26, which had great traction and decent feel but I had bad luck with punctures. Also the Conti GP4-Season, a little less comfortable than the Vittoria Pave but more puncture resistant and IMO a little better traction. The GP4-Season also has decent weight but that is at the expense of tread thickness (verified by bicyclerollingresistance.com) Currently I'm using up some Michelin Pro4 Race that I have laying around, they are good for traction and ride, but maybe not the best in terms of puncture resistance. I do not think the Holy Grail exists for a winter tire: reasonably good ride quality and rolling resistance, excellent traction and puncture resistance, and not too heavy.

Tires I still want to test: Panaracer Race D Evo, Schwalbe Durano DD both in 700x25


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:30 am 
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Bigger Gear wrote:
As you know Tony I ride the same conditions as you, just a little further south and west of where you live (White Rock). The Vittoria Open Pave are good tires, they have a nice ride quality and they are reasonably puncture resistant without having awful ride quality. However, I do not find them to have the best traction in cornering or even climbing out of the saddle on steep pitches (10% or more). Other winter tires I have used included the Panaracer Gravel King in 700x26, which had great traction and decent feel but I had bad luck with punctures. Also the Conti GP4-Season, a little less comfortable than the Vittoria Pave but more puncture resistant and IMO a little better traction. The GP4-Season also has decent weight but that is at the expense of tread thickness (verified by bicyclerollingresistance.com) Currently I'm using up some Michelin Pro4 Race that I have laying around, they are good for traction and ride, but maybe not the best in terms of puncture resistance. I do not think the Holy Grail exists for a winter tire: reasonably good ride quality and rolling resistance, excellent traction and puncture resistance, and not too heavy.

Tires I still want to test: Panaracer Race D Evo, Schwalbe Durano DD both in 700x25



Yepp quite rainy currently and certainly it will stay a while like this....

I am using the Vittoria Open Pavé 25mm so far and I am quite pleased with them (especially with my new rain bike which will be used as my winter bike also). I also heard that they are not that great with cornering but I haven't had any problem so far. Maybe it is cornering when together with braking etc...or if you are heavier...I have however bought some Conti 4 Season 25mm also that I will try this winter. As I understood they have a better puncture resistance but of course compared to the Pavé they should be less comfortable. I have also a pair of the Conti 4 season in 28mm that I have in case I want to try such a wide tire. So my plan is to ride the Open Pavé and as soon as I have some puncture I will then switch to the 4 Season in order to test them.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:31 am 
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double post.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:13 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA
I ride 25mm GP4000 Contis in the winter and I feel like 28mm would be more ideal if I had the rims+clearance. Where I ride, there's a lot of sections where there's a ton of debris with branches or little pinecones everywhere so I slow way down and try to avoid them as much as possible because hitting one of those pinecone things at speed and at the wrong angle causes my wheels to skid which can get pretty sketchy. Not sure if 28mm w/ lower pressure would completely solve the issue and let me just roll through with no problem but it certainly wouldn't hurt..

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:08 am 
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Did you try the Conti 4 season?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:54 am 
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Wet grip of that tyre is not great. Vittoria pave are excellent on the wet but the 27mm tyre is only 27mm on a 17mm internal width rim. They cut and puncture though on the roads I ride on but are reliable enough. Irc have a tyre called the Aspite Pro wet. Conti gp 4000sII tyres are fine in the wet. The wider the tyre the better though.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:40 am 
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bm0p700f wrote:
Wet grip of that tyre is not great. Vittoria pave are excellent on the wet but the 27mm tyre is only 27mm on a 17mm internal width rim. They cut and puncture though on the roads I ride on but are reliable enough. Irc have a tyre called the Aspite Pro wet. Conti gp 4000sII tyres are fine in the wet. The wider the tyre the better though.


Do you mean the wet grip of the Conti GP 4000SII is better than the Conti 4 season?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:03 am 
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Posts: 195
Location: Christchurch New Zealand
TonyM wrote:
Hi,

I am wondering which would be best tire width for the rainy days in terms of aerodynamic...

My thinking would be as follows:
- Front: less water resistance as possible. So 23mm would be the best. Actually even if the water resistance is not that important compared to the drag the 23mm would remain the best choice as for a TT. (of course in terms of traction when cornering, a 25mm would be better)
- Rear: a good traction should be achieved, here especially because the water is reducing the traction. So either a 25mm or even a 28mm if there is enough clearance.

What do you think?
Bigger Gear wrote:
Currently I'm using up some Michelin Pro4 Race that I have laying around, they are good for traction and ride, but maybe not the best in terms of puncture resistance.


+1 to the Michelin Pro 4's, but I have found them to be reasonably puncture resistant.
Was using Schwalbe One, really poor puncture protection and traction.

I'm sure others experiences will be different...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:05 am 
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impossible for a bike tire to hydroplane. Too narrow and wrong shape.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

also another vote for michelin pro 4 endurance. i have very good results with them. been riding on them for years and thousands of miles.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:04 pm 
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Location: Canada
Don't worry about the tire width. The important thing in the wet is pressure. A 23 is just fine in the wet. All you need to do is drop the pressure and get a better contact patch. Don't underestimate the importance of the front wheel. It is important for cornering and everything in braking.


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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:04 pm 


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