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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:15 pm 
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I currently have some Mavic cosmic carbon elites which at the time were meant to be a 'safe' Carbon clincher. They're ok until it rains. Yellow pads were just scary....black prince pads are better.

But I just want some wheels where I don't have any issues. I'm pretty much set on the cosmic pro exalith. Seems pretty aero and braking should be excellent. Only drawback is the weight but not too bad...

I keep reading the newer carbon clinchers are better. But can't find anything qualitative. From what I've read mavic carbon cosmic SL is the best. Zipps showstopper and Bora diamante bit behind that.

But are they in the same league as exalith??

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:29 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I know my carbon clinchers stop as well as all my normal alloy rims in the wet. I know most modern carbon rim are better at stopping in the wet but it is also heavily pad/rim dependent. what i also know is the manufacturers recommended pads are not always the best.

For my rims it campagnolo red pads that perform the best in the wet for other rims it maybe different pads.

you wont find anything qualitative as lab test will be junk as how wet is wet?

If you want to stop in the wet get a disc brake bike, rim brakes are a compromise for wet weather braking.

Exalith is a ceramic like coating to an alloy rim. I dont think there is anyway of getting a carbon rim to perform as well as that but carbon rim can perform as well in wet weather braking as a normal MSW alloy rim. The water always has to be scrubbed of the the bite happens. for me last sunday that was the case when it was really wet but when the rain stopped and the pack stopped giving me a shower so it was mearly damp the brakes just worked as soon as I pulled the lever

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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:29 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:49 pm 
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My Chinese carbon clinchers stop almost as well in the wet as my alu scirocco's.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:36 pm 
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I got caught out in the wet on my commute on Monday. I was surprised to learn my Boras (diamante surface, not AC3) probably stopped better wet than classic Enves did in the dry and, as far as memory serves, probably comparable to non-textured Enve with black prince in the dry.

Still, I would say GOOD braking in the wet only comes with discs. Otherwise you're just searching for "good enough" - which is usually weighted against a number of other qualities.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:54 pm 
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Imaking20 wrote:
I got caught out in the wet on my commute on Monday. I was surprised to learn my Boras (diamante surface, not AC3) probably stopped better wet than classic Enves did in the dry and, as far as memory serves, probably comparable to non-textured Enve with black prince in the dry.

Still, I would say GOOD braking in the wet only comes with discs. Otherwise you're just searching for "good enough" - which is usually weighted against a number of other qualities.
What interests me with the newer braking surfaces is if they have better feel. My experience was squeeze....wait until water cleared....and then you'd slow down.
Do the new surfaces offer some braking straight away?

I know even with normal alloys sometimes you have the same feeling....

Discs would mean whole new bike so not an option

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Yeah, I would describe my experience on alloy as the same. Sorta without exception if there's enough water out.

On Monday, the roads were just wet in the morning. There was no delay in braking and only a slight reduction in power. The afternoon (another shower that wasn't forecast) there was quite a bit more water and it will still coming down a little. There were a couple times I had to clear the braking surface first.

In my head, it makes sense that the new textured braking surfaces MIGHT improve on this. But still, the comparison is to alloy braking and I've still not ridden alloy that was not also diminished in wet weather and also required an adjustment in braking behavior with enough water coming down.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:28 pm 
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With rim brakes the water has to be cleared first before the brakes bite. No fancy tricks can get around that.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:36 am 
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In the wet I'd be interested to see how the new Boras perform

Previous Bora track (i.e. wide 2015-2017 Boras) was similar in performance to the pre 2015 Boras. Which is to say very good in dry and average for carbon rims in the wet.

Don't expect alloy braking performance on carbon rims in the wet.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Sorta 'carbon'.... Hed Jet series? No wet braking issues, wide, inexpensive.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:08 pm 
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sawyer wrote:
Previous Bora track (i.e. wide 2015-2017 Boras) was similar in performance to the pre 2015 Boras. Which is to say very good in dry and average for carbon rims in the wet.


I owned the pre-2015 Bora Ultra Twos and now have several pairs of 2015+ Bora 35s and 50s. I consider the braking performance of the newer model to be markedly better in dry and wet conditions. I too would be interested to know how much of an improvement AC3 brings.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Matt28NJ wrote:
Sorta 'carbon'.... Hed Jet series? No wet braking issues, wide, inexpensive.
Yeah thought of those too. But price wise in Europe the mavic cosmic pro exalith is way better

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like carbon has come some way.....

Does anyone know how zipps showstopper measures up against the mavic carbon sl or Bora ac3 ?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:37 am 
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I have a now three year old set of Farsports rims in clincher. They stop awesome in the rails with Reynolds Blue pads. I think pad choice is just as important as braking rim surface. The ED hubs with ceramic bearings and weighing in at 1277 grams for the pair is okay to me too.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:25 am 
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bikerdan wrote:
Matt28NJ wrote:
Sorta 'carbon'.... Hed Jet series? No wet braking issues, wide, inexpensive.
Yeah thought of those too. But price wise in Europe the mavic cosmic pro exalith is way better

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like carbon has come some way.....

Does anyone know how zipps showstopper measures up against the mavic carbon sl or Bora ac3 ?

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The cosmic exalith are not really a carbon rim though, hence they are heavier and cheaper.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Matt28NJ wrote:
Sorta 'carbon'.... Hed Jet series? No wet braking issues, wide, inexpensive.


Inexpensive? :shock:

I'd call them eyewateringly expensive... they certainly are in the UK... £ 1400 or so. I've bought cheaper cars in the past!!

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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:40 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:54 pm 
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whosatthewheel wrote:
Matt28NJ wrote:
Sorta 'carbon'.... Hed Jet series? No wet braking issues, wide, inexpensive.


Inexpensive? :shock:

I'd call them eyewateringly expensive... they certainly are in the UK... £ 1400 or so. I've bought cheaper cars in the past!!

What do they cost in the US? I like the wheels on paper but 2000€ for a carbon faired aluminum wheelset is bonkers.


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