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 Post subject: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:37 pm
Posts: 98
What do you think of this build through Wheelbuilder?

RR411 rims (a little bit lighter then R460's)
DT Swiss 240s hubs (not sure if I should go for standard or straight pull?)
DT Swiss Aerolite bladed spokes (24F/28R)
Alloy nipples
36 tooth ratchet upgrade for rear wheel

Specialized Turbo Cottons 24mm
Michelin Aircomp ultralight Butyl tubes


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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Posts: 1059
Location: FIN
have similar set in cross bike : 411 asymmetric, 28-24, DB (CL) , 350 hubs, sapim 2-1.7-2 spokes, Polyax niples.

Once build never required any attention under 84kg rider on any terrain. Like idea of asy rim. It gives nice tension on nds.

I would always choose straight pull over classic IF SP hub comes in desirable hole number. It limits also spokes choice ( not all non bladed spokes are in real life available as SP ) .

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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:31 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:58 am 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Posts: 743
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Good rims, I've got a set in for review - very similar build to yours but 28/32 comp spokes. Very impressed by their strength and weight. Mine were 435g front and 465g rear. Another thing I noted was that they're really well balanced, overall very impressed.

I'd stick with standard however - just makes sourcing spokes easier.

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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:18 am 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3260
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
28R with 240 hub and aerolight spokes would be a build that i would class as it could be stiffer. The rim is fairly stiff but couple with thin spokes and a hub that does not impart as much lateral stiffness as others do, means this rear wheel will flex more although the high NDS tension will mean the NDS spoke wont go slack.

Use sapim race/DT comps on the rear and you will be happier. the balanced thing is the only thing going for this rim

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Last edited by bm0p700f on Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:10 am
Posts: 291
Use Aero Comp spokes on the rear drive side. Use the 18 point, rather than 36 point star ratchet. Less noise/drag and on the road the quicker engagement isn't really noticable.


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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
This whole differential spoking thing is half way house that achieves nothing. Think about the physics of fatigue and follow those thoughts. There is so much psuedo physics about wheels, and spoke choice e.t.c that it all muddies the waters. If the goal is a stiff wheel then use aero comps on both sides. If the goal is a lighter wheel then dont but regarless of how light or otherwise the OP is stiffer wheels just feel better, the choice of a RR411, aerolight spokes and 240 hubs is not a receipe for I consider to be a stiff wheelset. Changing the DS spokes to aero comps only sort 1/3 of the problem. There is still the NDS spokes and the NDS bracing angle.

Go for a hub with better bracing angles and aero comps or sapim CX-force or DT comps/sapim race both sides of the rear wheel.

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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:35 pm
Posts: 110
DT 240 rear for J bend has always been a mixed bag... great freehub mechanism, light hub, durable bearings, but crap flange geometry. It really only suits a deep rim build. I echo Thecycleclinic comments.... I had a rear 28 DT 415 built on the 240 and it was a crap wheel. When I replaced the rim for something a bit stiffer, replaced the DT revolution with DT competition, then the wheel was rideable, but DT 240 and a shallow rim is an expensive way to build a poor wheel

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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:17 am 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Posts: 743
Location: Adelaide, Australia
The flange geometries aren't anything spectacular but I'm finding the DT240 and the RR411 with competition spokes very good. Perhaps the RR411 is stiffer than the RR415, it's certainly stiff enough (with the 240s) paired with the right spokes.

_________________
I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it :)

My SwiftCarbon Ultravox

My Velocite Selene

Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)


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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:28 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3260
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
it is stiffer but not stiff enough. I can build your wheel (RR411 on 240 hubs) and place the hub NDS facing down on my bench and load the rim by hand and feel the NDS spokes go slack. If use the humble knilin XR22T i feel no such give even when I heave and the wheel remain true after loading in other word it ready to be shipped. With RR411 no matter how well I stress the spoke loading the rim this way causes enough flex to throw the wheel out so it is one I am never truely happy with as high sideeloads can put the wheel out of true. So not the above combo is not a good one unless you are light. given the Kinlin rim is cheaper than the RR411 and only 20-30g heavier to me it is a no brainer even for a weight weenie which rim to use.

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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Posts: 743
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Strange, I've had no issues and I didn't have similar observations when stress relieving the wheel. Would this have anything to do with spoke tension? You do make a good point on the Kinlin rims though, but unless Kinlin have improved their finish quality and roundness the RR411 would still be a higher quality rim.

_________________
I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it :)

My SwiftCarbon Ultravox

My Velocite Selene

Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)


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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:23 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3260
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
the roundness of the kinlin I recieved in august is very good. however I had kinlin strap the boxes to pallets so they would not get bashed about.

Also it is not spoke tension , ut is the rr411 rim it is not very stiff. I will load up the wheel more than most when stress relieving to ensure the wheel wont go out of true in service hense i see issue others dont.

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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Posts: 1059
Location: FIN
Yesp, kinlin is best... but only laced to miche hubs. or novatec

remind us please, which brands your'e selling ? :mrgreen:

BTW if you're (really) not able to build "stiff" wheel on Dt 411 (asy) & Dt 240.... it says everything about your skills.

_________________
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)


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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:31 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: DT Swiss RR411
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:34 am 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3260
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
stomur the stiffness of a wheel is not dependent on spoke tension so I dont see your point. it is dependent of spoke guage, rim stiffness, spoke count and hub bracing angle. If the spoke count is fixed at 28, and the aerolite picked then all you have to play is the rim and hub bracing angle (NDS as DS are all pretty similar now). For example if you took a the same components and give them to a novice builder, me, ergot and a few others the resulting wheel would have the same lateral stiffness. thats is just physics. The wheel builder cannot increase the stiffness of a wheel by being a better wheel builder. He or she has to change the components.

so it has nothing to do with which brands I sell. I'd build with the RR411 if I felt it was good but there is better. The mavic Open Pro UST for one is cheaper, same weight, stiffer so it not just kinlin.

i just like stiff wheels, they are far more reliable for all riders.

I am just passing on that experience.

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