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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Posts: 91
NovemberDave wrote:
charlieboy52000 wrote:
The Al33 with the ceramic coating is not good. My Reynolds brake better and pads last years!!!
The pads on the AL33 are almost gone with 100miles!!! And the braking is not that big of a deal.
Is their ceramic better? I read some reviews about it and they were not that good.
Honestly I don't think the whole ceramic coating thing is founded.
My old aluminum clinchers brake better than these with the ceramic coating.
I forgot to mention that the cornering with these is superb. My only beef is the brake pad wearing rate.




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...If you carefully bed the pads in as you would do on a set of disc brakes, the pad wear is less even from the beginning.


Bedding the pads. I'm sorry I don't understand the term. Do you mean making sure that contact is being made properly between the pads and the braking surface? I'm anal about this things and I quadruple check everything specially braking since it could mean life or death.
In all honesty I'm going to order another set of pads although I have some zipp pads brand new that I might use.
I haven't been able to find their pads on the web. I'm going to go with your suggestion of pads and see what happens.
In all truth I have never ever seen pads wear so fast. The surface is acting as sand paper on the pads. I still have pads from my 105 days on aluminum rims that are usable. My Reynolds blue pads are still at half life and I put 12-14hrs of riding a week for 3 years. I live in Miami which is really flat. No need to brake much here compared to hilly terrain. These pads are half gone with 2 rides. 60miles and 42 miles. That is an issue Dave or poor engineering. Do you expect any pads to be chAnged after 200 miles, while having average braking performance? I find this difficult to afford if every month you have to pay around $30 for pads.




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:55 pm 
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http://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/articl ... ads-31337/

Try that protocol for starters. You didn't say what kind of pads you use but some pads wear super quickly. I inadvertently used a set of Kool stop salmon pads with al33 one day and they wore very fast. BXP do not wear nearly as fast.

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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:55 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Pa USA
FWIW, my experience was that the initial set of pads wore very quickly. I got around 2k out of a set of Campy red. I'm on a set of BXP now. My initial impression is that he bxp are wearing more quickly-the first rid left a scrim of pad attached to the right front pad, but not nearly as quickly as the first set of whatever November was shipping before they turned on the BXP. So yes, these rims are going to use pad more quickly than the non ceramic, but the added modulation seems worth it to me but that's purely subjective.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:21 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3229
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I think november cycles have presented some data showing the kinlin XR31T having lower drag at sensible yaw angles. the Al33 beats at yaw angles we rarely ride at.

this is a problem alot of these expensive alloy rims have. the Kinlin is a damm fine rim and there is little need to spend more.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:50 am 
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Posts: 91
NovemberDave wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/article/how-to-bed-in-disc-brake-pads-31337/

Try that protocol for starters. You didn't say what kind of pads you use but some pads wear super quickly. I inadvertently used a set of Kool stop salmon pads with al33 one day and they wore very fast. BXP do not wear nearly as fast.


Dave I don't know if we are on the same page. I am talking about rim brake pads not disc.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:43 am
Posts: 91
NovemberDave wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/article/how-to-bed-in-disc-brake-pads-31337/

Try that protocol for starters. You didn't say what kind of pads you use but some pads wear super quickly. I inadvertently used a set of Kool stop salmon pads with al33 one day and they wore very fast. BXP do not wear nearly as fast.


I use rim brake no disc. I just want the surface to be gone! If there is one thing I do not enjoy is impracticality. I can feel the modulation people talk about, but it is not worth it. There is no practical advantage of that.
The rims are great except the ceramic coating.
Light, round/aero, and corner like champs. The braking with the ceramic surface sucks!!! Eating a set of pads after 200miles!?!? That is a Week for me of riding or less. If that is the case these rims are going to cost me on pads 30$ per week x 4= 120$ per month. The rims cost that!!!
If I wind up more I am Going to ask wheel builder for a refund and send back the rims to remove them
And Make them again.
Maybe I should call them and ask. It is just inconceivable that pads last 200-300 miles!!!




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:17 pm
Posts: 44
Alright, maybe some of you will call me crazy, but I decided that of all the options to go with, I just went with Zondas. This is my first aftermarket wheelset, and I figure I'll start with something basic before I figure out something more expensive. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Posts: 3757
Location: On the bike
benjaminm3 wrote:
hi all,
I haven't been able to find a thread that covers this specifically, but I'm interested in:
- Aluminum braking surface
- Aero with a modern toroidal profile
- Reasonable-ish weight
- Clincher - these are for daily use and I'm not really prepared to go tubular

From what I've been able to find, these appear to be the options:
1) AL33 - Reasonably light at 1600 grams, with a modern aero profile. $875.
2) FLO cycling - the aluminum + carbon option seems possible - these are slightly heavy if you take the 60mm rim depth option - 1900 grams, but also reasonably priced at $1000.

I excluded the new dura-ace 9100 clincher options as those don't appear to have a toroidal aero profile, and don't seem as wide as the other two offerings.

Are there other options I'm overlooking?

Apologies if this has been covered before, I was unable to find a thread that covered current options.




Bontrager Aeolus Comp 5? $320. But pretty heavy at around ~1800g or so.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equi ... r/p/21803/

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:42 am
Posts: 154
charlieboy52000 wrote:
NovemberDave wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/article/how-to-bed-in-disc-brake-pads-31337/

Try that protocol for starters. You didn't say what kind of pads you use but some pads wear super quickly. I inadvertently used a set of Kool stop salmon pads with al33 one day and they wore very fast. BXP do not wear nearly as fast.


I use rim brake no disc. I just want the surface to be gone! If there is one thing I do not enjoy is impracticality. I can feel the modulation people talk about, but it is not worth it. There is no practical advantage of that.
The rims are great except the ceramic coating.
Light, round/aero, and corner like champs. The braking with the ceramic surface sucks!!! Eating a set of pads after 200miles!?!? That is a Week for me of riding or less. If that is the case these rims are going to cost me on pads 30$ per week x 4= 120$ per month. The rims cost that!!!
If I wind up more I am Going to ask wheel builder for a refund and send back the rims to remove them
And Make them again.
Maybe I should call them and ask. It is just inconceivable that pads last 200-300 miles!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I said this will give you the idea, and it does that. Just conceptually follow what the article says to do. Don't use brake cleaner though - alcohol is a good cleaner.

How you choose to approach your ownership of the wheels is yours to decide, I've just tried to help you, but there's a limited amount I can or will do (which is reached here). Discuss next steps with whom ever you bought them from. Your experience is not typical of what we've seen.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:18 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3229
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
you are missing a trick charlieboy. change your pads. if you cant tell us what you are using no one can help. also there is nothing wrong with your wheels. your wheel builder will suggest a change in pads, it is the sensible choice. If a few sharp stops are what is need with the rims to extend brake pad life then do it. it hardly a hardship. the point of ceramic coatings is to extend brake track life.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:43 am
Posts: 91
bm0p700f wrote:
you are missing a trick charlieboy. change your pads. if you cant tell us what you are using no one can help. also there is nothing wrong with your wheels. your wheel builder will suggest a change in pads, it is the sensible choice. If a few sharp stops are what is need with the rims to extend brake pad life then do it. it hardly a hardship. the point of ceramic coatings is to extend brake track life.


The pads are at 40%. They just wear fast. It is too fast. I don't understand if this is normal for people but for me it is not. My Reynolds assault pads have over 20k and are still going. 50% left.

I said it earlier. I am using the pads they sent with the wheels.
After these are done I'm going to install regular aluminum shimano pads and see how that goes.

The break track on an aluminum clincher should last a
Good 5 years. Al depending where you live. Since here is flat they should last that and more.




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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm
Posts: 984
What’s the moral of the story? Trade functionally (silver brake track with Kool-stop salmon pads) for aesthetics (ceramics fiasco)? Based on rider’s direct experience, there’s no advantage for ceramics up-charge. Whoever thinks that ceramics brake track is amazing, please be vocal about it now.
My silver brake track paired with Kool-stop salmon pads stop on a dime with Dura Ace 9000 caliper. Ultegra is not even close! Is it even possible to have more raw power?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:43 am
Posts: 91
NovemberDave wrote:
charlieboy52000 wrote:
NovemberDave wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/article/how-to-bed-in-disc-brake-pads-31337/

Try that protocol for starters. You didn't say what kind of pads you use but some pads wear super quickly. I inadvertently used a set of Kool stop salmon pads with al33 one day and they wore very fast. BXP do not wear nearly as fast.


I use rim brake no disc. I just want the surface to be gone! If there is one thing I do not enjoy is impracticality. I can feel the modulation people talk about, but it is not worth it. There is no practical advantage of that.
The rims are great except the ceramic coating.
Light, round/aero, and corner like champs. The braking with the ceramic surface sucks!!! Eating a set of pads after 200miles!?!? That is a Week for me of riding or less. If that is the case these rims are going to cost me on pads 30$ per week x 4= 120$ per month. The rims cost that!!!
If I wind up more I am Going to ask wheel builder for a refund and send back the rims to remove them
And Make them again.
Maybe I should call them and ask. It is just inconceivable that pads last 200-300 miles!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I said this will give you the idea, and it does that. Just conceptually follow what the article says to do. Don't use brake cleaner though - alcohol is a good cleaner.

How you choose to approach your ownership of the wheels is yours to decide, I've just tried to help you, but there's a limited amount I can or will do (which is reached here). Discuss next steps with whom ever you bought them from. Your experience is not typical of what we've seen.


Thanks for the help. It is much appreciated.
The pads are at 20% now they seem to be holding at that. I am going to be changing the front ones although they didn't wear evenly.
I am going to use all my aluminum spare pads and then try the BXP. no point In leaving those to waste. They are the original shimano pads that came standard with the brakes.
Thanks again


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:42 am
Posts: 154
charlieboy52000 wrote:
Thanks for the help. It is much appreciated.
The pads are at 20% now they seem to be holding at that. I am going to be changing the front ones although they didn't wear evenly.
I am going to use all my aluminum spare pads and then try the BXP. no point In leaving those to waste. They are the original shimano pads that came standard with the brakes.
Thanks again


Pad wear is going to continue to be higher while you use up your stock of spare aluminum pads, and braking won't be as good as with BXPs, but there should otherwise be nothing wrong with doing that.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 am
Posts: 2643
Location: Islip, NY
stormur wrote:
V shaped rims are much better performers in both areas ( reducing drag at every yaw and lighter ).



I asked here many times for RELIABLE DATA which will prove I'm wrong... never get it.

Find some aero/hydro-nautic forum, read for a while ( it will take a lot of time, but fascinating knowledge ) and make own conclusion. Those forums are full of engineers who make a ( very decent ) living on "cheating" wind; and they do not want to sell you anything, nor are paid to "help" you making decision (99.9% of population simply can't afford stuff which they work on ).



What part of a boat are you comparing to a rim profile? Both the tire side and spoke side of a rim are leading edges and trailing edges. To further complicate things the front rim effects steering input. I don't know of a fair comparison to the shapes used in hydro-nautics.

Also in fairness to your request for data, I'd like to see some data supporting your claims.



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Last edited by ergott on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:09 pm 


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